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messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Dulwichgirl82 October 16, 02:47PM

Agree with this and I used to walk down regularly.

It was also a Schrodingerís traffic:Simultaneously awful requiring the road closure but has since entirely disappeared since the temporary measures causing no traffic displacement apparently.


rst mate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How odd, I donít believe I have ever noticed
> Melbourne north regularly blocked or lots of road
> rage incidents and over the years I have been up
> down frequently.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by rahrahrah October 16, 02:48PM

@Rockets - what happened to the road on the north side of Trafalgar Square?

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by legalalien October 16, 02:50PM

Also: I think the reality of the discourse is that almost everyone on here thinks some measures are needed. It's just that many oppose the exact nature of the current ones on the basis that they weren't properly thought through in a joined up manner (as one of the councillors has expressly acknowleged) and are having an unacceptable and disproportionate negative effect on some residents (including schools) and road users - motorists, cyclists and pedestrians - on EDG particular. A different set of measures is needed.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by rahrahrah October 16, 02:51PM

Which measures?

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Dogkennelhillbilly October 16, 02:54PM

Dulwichgirl82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree with this and I used to walk down
> regularly.
>
> It was also a Schrodingerís traffic:Simultaneously
> awful requiring the road closure but has since
> entirely disappeared since the temporary measures
> causing no traffic displacement apparently.

Who specifically has said traffic has entirely disappeared and there has been no displacement?

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Penguin68 October 16, 02:55PM

The roads aren't closed though, they are filtered. Every street can be driven on and to. Residents can also use their cars, get deliveries etc., itís just not possible to drive straight through from one main road to the next.

I'm sorry, this is the definition of a cul-de-sac - often marked with 'No Through Road'. True - it's not actually what we often refer to rudely as ' a gated community' but it is the next best thing. THE ROAD IS CLOSED TO THROUGH TRAFFIC (pardon for shouting). A 'filter' suggests that you can pass through, but although pedestrians and bikes I suppose can - 4 wheeled vehicles can't. They are not 'filtered' they are blocked. The road (as a road, as opposed to a pavement or cycle track) is closed.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by rahrahrah October 16, 02:56PM

Lots of people used to walk down Melbourne Grove to the station each day / evening (pre COVID... remember that!) and Iím sure some at least will remember how often it got blocked because (usually a Jewsons lorry or similar) would not be able to pass traffic trying to come the other way, or there would be someone blocking the junction with EDG / misjudging the turn. But itís not worth debating. Some will swear blind that congestion didnít exist pre- LTN, in the same way that theyíll claim the closure of the south circular would barely have been noticed 6 months ago.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by rahrahrah October 16, 02:58PM

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dulwichgirl82 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Agree with this and I used to walk down
> > regularly.
> >
> > It was also a Schrodingerís
> traffic:Simultaneously
> > awful requiring the road closure but has since
> > entirely disappeared since the temporary
> measures
> > causing no traffic displacement apparently.
>
> Who specifically has said traffic has entirely
> disappeared and there has been no displacement?

No body. There are more straw men on this thread than a Worzel Gummage convention

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by rahrahrah October 16, 03:04PM

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The roads aren't closed though, they are filtered.
> Every street can be driven on and to. Residents
> can also use their cars, get deliveries etc., itís
> just not possible to drive straight through from
> one main road to the next.
>
> I'm sorry, this is the definition of a cul-de-sac
> - often marked with 'No Through Road'. True - it's
> not actually what we often refer to rudely as ' a
> gated community' but it is the next best thing.
> THE ROAD IS CLOSED TO THROUGH TRAFFIC (pardon for
> shouting). A 'filter' suggests that you can pass
> through, but although pedestrians and bikes I
> suppose can - 4 wheeled vehicles can't. They are
> not 'filtered' they are blocked. The road (as a
> road, as opposed to a pavement or cycle track) is
> closed.


The road is not closed to cars though. There is a filter, which stops motor vehicles from using it as a cut through. Bikes and pedestrians can pass through (unlike a cul-de-sac), hence the fact it is referred to as 'filtered'. A road which has been closed (such as north side of Trafalgar Square, or many a town high street) does not allow cars access.

If people insist Calton Avenue has been closed though, then they presumably would not be concerned if you couldn't access it at all, because... what's the difference?

I suspect they would.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was october 16, 03:15pm by rahrahrah.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Dogkennelhillbilly October 16, 03:32PM

The road is closed to *motorised* through traffic. Shouting doesn't make you right. It makes you look hysterical.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by first mate October 16, 04:00PM

HahaHa, Shroedingerís traffic. Love it.

Dulwichgirl82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree with this and I used to walk down
> regularly.
>
> It was also a Schrodingerís traffic:Simultaneously
> awful requiring the road closure but has since
> entirely disappeared since the temporary measures
> causing no traffic displacement apparently.
>
>
> rst mate Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How odd, I donít believe I have ever noticed
> > Melbourne north regularly blocked or lots of
> road
> > rage incidents and over the years I have been
> up
> > down frequently.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by first mate October 16, 04:05PM

P68 is the very last poster I think anyone would describe as hysterical, but keeping things personal rather than coming up with credible arguments does you no favours DKHB.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by first mate October 16, 04:11PM

Of course there were occasional road blocks, there are in many streets, it happens. However, I genuinely never noticed this to be a regular thing...not to the point it would be a real issue. Ditto frequent road rage incidents. It honestly does feel like you and I have been regular users of a completely different road rahrahrah.

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of people used to walk down Melbourne Grove
> to the station each day / evening (pre COVID...
> remember that!) and Iím sure some at least will
> remember how often it got blocked because (usually
> a Jewsons lorry or similar) would not be able to
> pass traffic trying to come the other way, or
> there would be someone blocking the junction with
> EDG / misjudging the turn. But itís not worth
> debating. Some will swear blind that congestion
> didnít exist pre- LTN, in the same way that
> theyíll claim the closure of the south circular
> would barely have been noticed 6 months ago.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by KidKruger October 16, 04:16PM

Yeah 68 is cool, so back-off with the jibes.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Metallic October 16, 04:28PM

Just had a walk down to DV. The sight of a car transporter coming down College Road, round the traffic island and then turning in to Gallery Road, to presumably get back to where he started, was extraordinary. Everyone pipping their horns, people shouting through their car windows, and then thank goodness, to get back to the peace and tranquillity of that pollution-free road, Court Lane.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by JohnL October 16, 04:32PM

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The roads aren't closed though, they are filtered.
> Every street can be driven on and to. Residents
> can also use their cars, get deliveries etc., itís
> just not possible to drive straight through from
> one main road to the next.
>
> I'm sorry, this is the definition of a cul-de-sac
> - often marked with 'No Through Road'. True - it's
> not actually what we often refer to rudely as ' a
> gated community' but it is the next best thing.
> THE ROAD IS CLOSED TO THROUGH TRAFFIC (pardon for
> shouting). A 'filter' suggests that you can pass
> through, but although pedestrians and bikes I
> suppose can - 4 wheeled vehicles can't. They are
> not 'filtered' they are blocked. The road (as a
> road, as opposed to a pavement or cycle track) is
> closed.


That's what a firewall does when it filters - blocks specific traffic smiling smiley

I like that they're running road traffic like network traffic. We also have some Quality of Service and a lot of Routing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was october 16, 04:35pm by JohnL.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Dulwichgirl82 October 16, 05:42PM

Errrm my silence is purely that Iím on holiday! So Iíd advise you to have a look through the previous threads and you will many Ďalways busy roadsí Ďnot worse than beforeí comments. However Iím going to enjoy the last holiday I imagine we can any time soon!

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dulwichgirl82 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Agree with this and I used to walk down
> > > regularly.
> > >
> > > It was also a Schrodingerís
> > traffic:Simultaneously
> > > awful requiring the road closure but has
> since
> > > entirely disappeared since the temporary
> > measures
> > > causing no traffic displacement apparently.
> >
> > Who specifically has said traffic has entirely
> > disappeared and there has been no displacement?
>
> No body. There are more straw men on this thread
> than a Worzel Gummage convention

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Penguin68 October 16, 05:56PM

first mate and KidKruger you are both very kind.

P68

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Rockets October 16, 07:56PM

Yes and DKHB does have a certain pattern to their ahem "discussions". We may have to rename them DogKennelHillBully! winking smiley

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by legalalien October 17, 12:00AM

FYI: Redbridge have now scrapped their pilot due to residentsí concerns, suggesting that insufficient consultation meant they didnít get it right.

[www.redbridge.gov.uk]

Also some changes made to Lewisham/ Lee Green to address problems.

[www.newsshopper.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was october 17, 12:09am by legalalien.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by kiera October 17, 02:38AM

Message from Margy Newens re South Circular closure:-

As many of you will be aware, on Thursday afternoon a major water main burst beneath the South Circular just outside the more westerly entrance to Dulwich Park resulting in considerable damage to the highway and pavement and copious flooding. The road has been closed in both directions between Lordship Lane and College Road since the incident resulting in gridlock throughout the entire area. I have been advised that there is now a signposted diversion via Croxted Road, Norwood Road, Half Moon Lane, Village Way, East Dulwich Grove, Lordship Lane.

Officially, we have been advised that the repairs will take at least until Sunday evening to complete. Meanwhile, I spoke to a Thames Water engineer on site this morning who indicated that the works could well extend into next week and that the extent of damage to the highway would mean that it is likely to remain closed to motor vehicles in both directions for the duration. Access to pedestrians and cycles will be maintained throughout.

Please share this information with your networks.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by mac4 October 17, 11:55AM

I think Margy Newens has got her east and west muddled up. The water main burst is close to the Riding School on the south circular and what I would refer to as the southern entrance to Dulwich Park. In terms of easterly or westerly it is surely the easterly entrance not westerly. The westerly entrance is close by Dulwich picture gallery.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by KidKruger October 17, 01:10PM

Yes, of the two gates on the the South Circular A205 (an East <-> West road) the gate by the riding school is the Easternmost.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Spartacus October 17, 01:21PM

Hence from now on, the problems in the area will be known as "Covidgate"

Can't wait till the movie comes out 🤔

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by legalalien October 17, 01:26PM

The length of the diversion, which sends people through an already congested Herne Hill and EDG, says it all. It's the reverse of what I was suggesting yesterday when I theorised that tail backs of traffic on Lordship Lane were of people trying to get to Herne Hill and back onto the south circular....

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Pugwash October 17, 01:37PM

I like many others were caught up yesterday in the long queues of traffic in LL from Goodrich Road to Goose Green and wondered why the P$ and P13 buses were going up LL. Hubby had been down LL earlier in the day and had commented on the traffic. I noticed at junction of LL and EDG there was a diversion sign, and on my return journey noticed another diversion sign at junction LL/Barry Road. All well and good if you know what the problem is and why diversion is needed, but to stick up signs diverting traffic who have no idea why, where they are diverting to etc is useless.
It peeves me and I have always said if I got invited to Room 101 on TV - this would be my hate/dislike to be binned!

I did follow a diversion sign some years ago between Beckenham and Bromley - Had not the faintest idea where I was going and after several minutes went back on myself and ignored the sign and carried on my normal route. Whatever/Where ever the problem was it was not apparent on that day.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Rockets October 17, 03:13PM

I think what Margy is trying to tell her pro-closure neighbours is that she has done her best to get the displacement traffic from the A205 closure diverted away from Dulwich Village.

The irony is of course is that Dulwich Village is now experiencing exactly what other parts of Dulwich have to live with since the closure of the DV junction. You reap what you sow....

Also it appears some idiot drivers have been removing the cones outside the Grove Tavern - probably thinking this is another LTN and finding out it most certainly isn't!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was october 17, 05:38pm by Rockets.

messageRe: Traffic chaos in Dulwich Village - does anyone know the cause?
Posted by Rockets October 18, 03:12PM

Just an FYI the A205 is open again now. And before any of the pro-closure lobby accuse me of driving along the A205 we walked to The Rosendale for a very nice Sunday lunch! winking smiley

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