Re: Bakerloo line extension - have your say for Peckham Rye

[pork chop]

These transport threads seem far too important for ED / Peckham etc, for them to sit unread in the Lounge section, so I'm starting a link here... (I missed them for a month and the EDF site description has transport / planning in this section).

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,1786614

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,1785079,1785079#msg-1785079

Here is the link to feedback to TFL:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension/?cid=bakerloo-extension

Closing date : 20 April.

There is just no logic in the new Bakerloo line running the full length of the Old Kent Rd without a link with the London Overland at Queens Rd Peckham. It will help get people out of their cars, and help resolve South London's transport issues.

[PeckhamRose]

I believe a decision has already been made. We have the Overground and there is nothing between E&C and Queen's Road. I am happy for the area; obviously it would have been great had it come to Peckham but quite possibly for the first time ever I think Southwark have made a good decision. ;)

[Jeremy]

PR, I agree that the route is probably the right one overall. But by moving the "Old Kent Rd 2" station a couple of hundred metres to the south, it could have been an interchange with QRP, providing some much needed connectivity to the Southern and Overground routes.

[pork chop]

The decision to go down OKR has been made. The previous TFL consultation process two years ago resulted in this decision.

The location of OKR stations is not decided. As this new consultation shows, feedback is required on proposed locations, and Queens Rd Peckham should definitely be an LO connection.

[drew]

Unsure why people are so keen on an interchange with QRP.

The proposed Bakerloo Line Extension already intersects with New Cross Gate on the Overground.

Seems a bit much to have two interchanges on the same line?

[pork chop]

?Unsure why people are so keen on an interchange with QRP.?

For the reason that south of Surrey Quays the LO splits into two completely distinct lines, serving different areas. If you lived near Goose Green and wanted to get to Oxford Circus, you would have to go as far as Brockely or Forest Hill to get the LO and connect to the Bakerloo via New Cross Gate. This is a journey in the wrong direction, and into Zone 3 in the case of FH.

Interchanges on the same line is basically what you get when the one name covers several routes. The Northern Line splits across the middle, and connects to the Jubilee twice at London Bridge and Waterloo, or the Central Line twice at Bank and Tottenham Court Rd. Same with the other tube lines.

[JohnL]

pork chop Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The decision to go down OKR has been made. The

> previous TFL consultation process two years ago

> resulted in this decision.

>

> The location of OKR stations is not decided. As

> this new consultation shows, feedback is required

> on proposed locations, and Queens Rd Peckham

> should definitely be an LO connection.

The will of the people.

Except it wasn't :)

[bil]

Thank you Pork chop.

I agree that having an intersection with the peckham would be helpful for those using the peckham/clapham branch of the London overground. The distance between Tesco (OKR1) and B&Q(one of the proposed sites for OKR2) is short; seems unnecessary to spend on having two stations so close.

If there were an option to relocate the second station, I believe Peckham rye (perhaps choumert car park or other car park areas) would be a better location than Queens road. But I prefer Queens road to OKR2. My worry is that the area surrounding Queens road station is residential; What affect would having an underground station and shaft site have to peoples homes? The new cross gate extension in comparison will mostly affect the sainsburys car park. Fortunately those living near Queens road can easily reach the bakerloo line by bus (at OKR2 or NXG) unlike the rest of us.

[pork chop]

There are a few simple reasons why Queens Road Peckham is the Overland station to plug for -

Whether one agrees with it or not, a basic equation has been applied by TFL which is to pay for the Bakerloo extension through increases in land value and ??? made from developments along the route. 2 years ago a previous consultation was held, which asked for opinions about a Camberwell / Peckham route as opposed to OKR. However, it seems their mind was made up as it was already decided that OKR had much greater potential for property development.

(Ken Livingstone?s 2003 proclamation that he wanted to impose a ?windfall tax? on profits made by property owners along the Jubilee line extension seemed to fire the gun on this approach).

OKR would not have been my preferred route, but the argument was that it couldn?t be financed otherwise. When one looks at the proposed stations, it is true that OKR1 is close to OKR2. Moving OKR2 a fairly small distance to the South East would allow the connection with the Overland at Queens Road Peckham, whilst still being very close to the property development areas on the OKR that are being looked at. Somewhere near Aldi would easily allow a link to the south to QRP station, but would also be just 200-300m or so from the Toys R Us location that they are already considering. ie. completely viable when applying TFL?s own rationale, whilst giving the all important connection with the Peckham leg of the Overland.

Peckham Rye station is just too far away from their preferred development areas to be acceptable, in terms of the funding model that TFL are applying.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It would make perfect sense. Which is why it probably won't happen. Anything which reduces the profits of developers is likely to be resisted. After all that's what are taxes are for right? Lining the pockets of private companies.

[Jeremy]

Porkchop is right, PR is much too far a diversion from the proposed route. But QRP would only be a relatively small diversion. Or even situating the OKR2 station such that an interchange with QRP is viable (e.g. Clapham High Street).

[JohnL]

And by then we'll have the Coal Line :)

[pork chop]

Questions around the connections for the Bakerloo Line extension have been raised with TFL by Caroline Pidgeon, Liberal Democrat Assembly Member 
Chair of the Transport Committee.

The responses from TFL / the Mayor are already public and can be shared:

Bakerloo Line extension (1)

Question No: 2017/1668

Caroline Pidgeon

Why do TfL's plans for the Bakerloo line extension not include three stations on the Old Kent Road to improve transport links and match the stations per km of the rest of the line?

Written response from the Mayor

TfL took into account the emerging proposals in the London Borough of Southwark?s Old Kent Road Area Action Plan before launching its consultation on the proposal for two stations along the Old Kent Road.

The distance between stations varies significantly on different parts of the Underground network. TfL has focused considerations on the planned changes in the Old Kent Road Opportunity Area to determine the number and location of stations that would support future growth.

TfL considers that two stations would be sufficient alongside improvements to local bus services, walking and cycle networks to support the travel demand impacts of the planned new development.

The consultation TfL is running provides the opportunity for the public and stakeholders to give their views and I know that TfL would welcome as much feedback as possible to help shape the scheme to best serve local communities.

Bakerloo Line extension (2)

Question No: 2017/1669

Caroline Pidgeon

Have you looked into introducing an interchange between the Overground and Bakerloo lines on Old Kent Road as part of the Bakerloo Line extension plans?

Written response from the Mayor

Yes. TfL has look at the option of providing a station at Old Kent Road on the Overground line between the proposed New Bermondsey station and Queens Road Peckham station.

The option was considered to support the emerging proposals in the London Borough of Southwark?s Old Kent Road Area Action Plan. TfL concluded that a London Overground station is not currently required to ensure the Old Kent Road Area Action Plan proposals are sustainable and that a station here could also reduce the reliability of operating timetabled services on this part of the Overground network.

The proposals for the new Underground stations are focused on the best way of serving the existing and future planned communities in the Old Kent Road to make growth in the area sustainable.

The consultation TfL is running provides the opportunity for the public and stakeholders to give their views and I know that TfL would welcome as much feedback as possible to help shape the scheme to best serve local communities.