School meals - an interesting article

[Coach Beth]

Just read this article in today's Guardian and thought it raised many interesting points.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/oct/24/jamie-oliver-school-meals-progress-undone

I know that my son's school (Goose Green Primary) is already implementing some of his recommendations including using capital funding to install a school kitchen where school meals will be prepared on-site by a school cook (kitchen should finally be ready by the end of November!) and developing a multi-purpose space in the school annexe for cooking lessons for all students. The PTA has also been seeking funding to support a gardening club at the school and getting a vegetable garden up and running. But it seems that there is lots schools can do and I'm wondering what others schools do around food? I heard that Dog Kennell Hill recently had an apple day and encouraged people to bring in apples to press which sounded fab!

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Coach Beth, yes as part of the commitment to free school meals, there were capital funds for Kitchem inprovements, I'm glad to hear that GG has benefitted from this. To let you know, bids for Cleaner Greener Safer are opening and this would be a suitable source of funding for you to appy to for setting up your vegetable garden.

[email protected]

Renata

[Coach Beth]

Thanks for the information Renata!

[James Barber]

And I confirmed my reference for Goose Green School making such a bid to other funding stream yesterday.

[Coach Beth]

Yes, a big thank-you James! Fingers crossed we will get this funding from the Capital Growth funding programme - really exciting to be getting the vegetable garden up and running at the school!

[Bumpkin]

That's great news, where abouts will the veg garden be? (am intrigued as not loads of green space..).

[Coach Beth]

We're going to create some raised beds and planters for vegetable growing - probably near the nursery play area round the back of the school. It's surprising what you can grow in a small space using planters, tubs and grow bags! We also had a donation a few weeks ago of a cold frame from someone on the forum which was great (actually we are in need of both adult and child sized rakes in good condition for the gardening club so if someone has one they'd like to donate please PM me) If you see along the Grove Vale fence, you can see our wild-life garden area, it's surprising how much diverse plant life is there. In a few years as the plants grow up the fence, it should be a lovely 'green fence' which will improve the whole area.

[goosegreenpta]

We're definately getting green thumbs at Goose Green!

On that note, next week on Friday 11th November, we are having an autumn garden tidy up and bulb planting in our wildlife garden at Goose Green School. If you have any spare bulbs or rakes (adult and child sized) or trowels (adult sized - we have child sized), your donation would be most welcome! PM if you want to make a donation.

Thank you!

Goose Green Primary School PTA

http://www.goosegreenprimaryschool.org

[JMT]

Hi Renata

Are school meal given free to everyone in Southwark, or only those on low incomes?

[Renata Hamvas]

Currently Free School meals are give to all children in Southwark primaries in Reception/Year 1, years 2/3/4 will follow next year and 5/6 in 2013. In terms of those eligible for FSM anyway, the family income would need to be under 16k per annum. The median (average) income of Southwark families is 17k, which means that there are a large number of families whose income is just above the level where they would automatically qualify for FSM and it's an all or nothing benefit. Also, it means the families with a low income, who were eligible for FSM but didn't claim them are receiving them.

Renata

[JMT]

Thanks for your response Renata.

I'm sorry if I am about to upset anybody, but I am quite shocked that Southwark are planning to give free school meals to everyone, regardless of income, whilst at the same time asking for ways in which to cut funds to the libraries to avoid closure.

It is quite obvious that a large proportion of families in Southwark are not on the bread line. Surely the money you are spending on this scheme could be put to much better use. If not libraries, then attending to the lack of school places in the area - especially with the amount of new housing planned for the area in the next five years - or even into producing better quality meals.

Calculating the average wage does not automatically mean that most families are receiving that wage, and I would be surprised if this were the case. I don't know a great deal about income support, but I understand that if you earn under ?16,000 per annum but work more than 15 hours, then you are entitled to working Tax Credits. If people claiming this benefit do not know that they are also eligible to claim free school meals, then I believe this is the issue that should be addressed, rather than just ignoring the problem by giving school meals to everyone, regardless of income.

I would be very interested in other people's view on this.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi JMT,

the qualification for FSH for those claiming Child Tax Credit is those that are not entitled to Working Tax Credit and have an annual income (as assessed by HM Revenue & Customs) that does not exceed ?16,190.

There are many families in Southwark that don't qualify for Free School Meals and have little disposable income after essential costs are paid for. Southwark has one of the highest rates of childhood obesity in the country. By offering a free healthy school meal to children in Southwark's Children, we are hoping that by familiarising children with health eating habits we will buck the trend (It of course will take several years to see whether the this has been successful). A pilot was carried out in 10 Southwark Primaries last year. It was on the back of the success of the pilot that the scheme is being rolled out across Southwark's Primary schools. Meetings were held with parents in the 10 pilot schools to get feedback. I attended one of these. I didn't hear any negative feedback. Some of the parents themselves have been surprised about the outcome, eg a parent that told me that her child who had previously been on packed lunches as he was a fussy eater, is now eating fruit and vegetables and a diverse range of foods. His mother puts it down to peer pressure, seeing other children eat foods he wouldn't normally have touched.

By making improvements to school kitchens where neccessary, this will make it easier for them to provide wholesome, healthy food to Southwark's children.

Another thing, that has been apparent in other LAs when they offer FSM and appears to be happening in Southwark is that frequently, when people are eligible for FSM, they do not claim them. They do however fill out the forms when everyone has free school meals. This has a significant impact on the money schools get from government. There is a pupil premium for those pupils who are eligible for and claiming free school meals. If more parents have filled out the forms, it means more funds for the schools. Yes, I do agree that there are some families benefiting from the scheme that are affluent, however there are many more families who benefit and are not affluent. Southwark overall has high levels of poverty and deprivation with some areas of affluence.

In terms of Libraries, none of Southwark's Libraries are to close. The children's centres are to remain even though the funding has been cut.

Renata

[EDmummy]

Well done Renata!

JMT Wrote:

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> It is quite obvious that a large proportion of

> families in Southwark are not on the bread line.

> Surely the money you are spending on this scheme

> could be put to much better use.

And to JMT - you certainly need to get out more! To say that a 'large proportion' of families in Southware are not on the breadline is ridiculous. Outside of East Dulwich, Dulwich Village and borders there is plenty of poverty!

[westof]

I don't know a great deal

> about income support, but I understand that if you

> earn under ?16,000 per annum but work more than 15

> hours, then you are entitled to working Tax

> Credits. If people claiming this benefit do not

> know that they are also eligible to claim free

> school meals, then I believe this is the issue

> that should be addressed, rather than just

> ignoring the problem by giving school meals to

> everyone, regardless of income.

Possibly not relevant to the general gist of your argument, but as I understand it, as soon as you are working enough hours to claim Working Tax Credit, you lose your entitlement to Free School Meals full stop, even if you are on minumum wage (?12K-ish? per annum).

That's why children suddenly start taking in packed lunches (cheaper than paying for school meals) when their mum's go back to work & they lose their FSM entitlement...

I think many more poor families in Southwark will benefit from the universal free meals, than there are affluent families who don't need them.

[Coach Beth]

I think, on balance it is a good thing. As the orginial article that I posted a link to here points out, feeding children healthy food in schools increases good behaviour and achievement. Providing free school meals for all will mean that parents will not be able to choose the packed lunch option - and children will be more likely to join their peers and eat a healthy lunch (rather than ask for a packed lunch option). Ideally, if parents who have a reasonable household income could contribute in some way that would be good - but I also think that the costs of administering this might cost as much as simply providing the school meals to all.

[JMT]

Thanks Renata

I'd say you need to address the application system rather than giving free meals to families who can clearly afford it. You say you will not see evidence of any success for ten years, but then say that after the success of your pilot scheme last year you are going to roll out the scheme to every child in primary school. On what evidence? One child eating vegetables? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get any negative feedback from parents who now don't have to pay for their child's lunch. What negative feedback were you expecting?

I have friends on benefits who still manage to feed their children healthy food. It's more about education than giving out freebies. My child currently gets school meals from Chartwells, a popular provider of 'healthy' school meals . She regularly comes home having eaten burgers and chips, fish fingers or biscuit with custard. Why can't the money be spent on installing kitchens in all schools to cook meals themselves, rather than going to these large companies? The children could even help with the food prep.

I see from James Barber's posts that there are quite a few holes in your argument.

I am well aware that there are many families in need of these meals, and I would give my wholehearted backing to these families receiving them. I do believe that there are plenty of families in Southwark - not just in Dulwich, but in other districts such as London Bridge, Waterloo, Herne Hill, Tower Bridge, Shad Thames and Bermondsey who can well afford their child's school meals.

[JMT]

PS

Renata

I would like to hold you to our word regarding non closure of libraries and children's centres. There are so many posts about possible closures, some posted by ED councillors, it's great to know that they are all safe.

[James Barber]

But their is no evidence that school meals encourage healthy eating. Southwark is not taking part in any academic study to suggest some new approach and no study has shown such a link.

Plenty of evidence that eating habits are established pre 4 years of age.

School Meal have to meet a dept of Education standard. Southwark is not planning a healthier standard than the DfE so the "free healthy school meals" is an attempt to claim a higher moral ground but sadly means nothing - and politicians wonder why we get a bad name.

When head teachers were told about universal FSM's in Southwark they had a fit. They say they could make more difference using the extra annual ?4.5M differently.

If we realy want to make a difference to kids in Southwark free breakfasts have been shown to make a measurable difference to attainment as many Southwark kids go to school on nothing or a bag of crisps, it would ensure they all turn up on time for the free breakfast and not be late for the actual school start. Sadly breakfast clubs are closing not opening.

As for FSM's Southwark has the highest rate of take up at 2/3rds of those entitled. This could be boosted via things like cashless systems, linking thoroughly with benefits teams.

And the Pupil Premium an extra ?480 for every child from deprived backgrounds is related to those who claim FSM so it is critical that everyone one entitled to FSM is identified.

[Loz]

EDmummy Wrote:

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> And to JMT - you certainly need to get out more! To say that a 'large proportion' of families in

> Southware are not on the breadline is ridiculous. Outside of East Dulwich, Dulwich Village and

> borders there is plenty of poverty!

And inside those borders there are many, many middle class and rich families. They are going to have the council tax of people much poorer than them going to feed their kids at the time that other services are being cut back.

School meals are a great idea. Feeding the rich is not. This really is a stupid policy. It was only put into place to buy the votes of the self-interested. And, to everyone's shame, it worked.

[????]

It is a Ridiculous subsidy for middle class parents, absolutely mad in current circumstances....Labour Gonna spend for votesthough, it's in their DNA to buy votes 'till we're all bust.

How critics of us critics of this can emote about ithers needing this as if 'we're not aware of poverty in the rest of the borough is laughable - thousands of families all over the borough don't need this at all thousands sd and they should get these resources not miidle class families. (See also Winter Fuel allowances for all pensioners etc). Those saying this should be universal are actually the selfish ones IMO.

[EDmummy]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> School meals are a great idea. Feeding the rich

> is not. This really is a stupid policy. It was

> only put into place to buy the votes of the

> self-interested. And, to everyone's shame, it

> worked.

Do you know people who voted Labour based on this policy? I'm pretty sure most people had other reasons to vote the way they did.

I know many people who you could consider 'middle class' who probably won't take up the offer of free school meals and continue to let their kids have packed lunches but equally know people who are single parents and struggling to provide packed lunches for their kids who will find this incredibly helpful at the moment. Personally, I don't want free school meals for my children but perhaps only a broad brush approach would work in this situation. I really don't know whether this policy will work and I am more than concerned if other parts of school budgets are affected by this. My post was only about the fact that there is a hell of a lot of poverty in Southwark and that we should all be aware of the struggles that families are facing.

[James Barber]

The Dept of Education school meal standards which are what Southwark universal free healthy school meals will be delivered against allow chips 3 time a week and other such surprising 'healthy' options.

Cashless card and other such systems can allow parents to know what their kids are choosing remotely. Then at least parents would have a genuine idea if their kids are eating healthily.

[Coach Beth]

I do agree with ED mummy - I can't see this being an issue to vote on and it certaintly wasn't in my mind as like other posters, I think people on decent incomes should contribute to things like this. HOWEVER I do know that unfortunately, there are a significant minority of parents who provide very inadequate packed lunches (i.e. a bag of crisps and a juice/fizzy drinks) for their children - despite exhortation from schools not to! A broad brush approach where all kids get a hot meal will at least ensure that children whose parents either can't afford a hot lunch or whose parents who aren't bothered enough to provide children with a proper packed lunch will balk at them getting a free school meal. Like the other posters, although I am not wealthy, I feel that I can afford school dinner. Schools always need donations of craft supplies, plants, bulbs, gardening equipment (see my plea for bulbs and rakes above) and I do tend to donate things like this to the school so the extra cash will probably find it's way back to the school in another form. I will always donate my time - and I think the more of us who can volunteer to help out reading in schools or any other way the better!!

But I am very concerned that children who do not have the advantages that my child does get a school lunch. I see the menu at my child's school and I never see chips as an option actually - I think the portion sizes are on th small side but I think the nutritional values are good - better than what I would provide in a packed lunch I think! And, since we now have a kitchen at Goose Green and will have a cook on-site (as opposed to a catering company bringing meals in which is the reality for most schools in the area and has been for Goose Green too) I think the quality will go up. I'm sure this is the case for other schools.

My two cents worth!

[Fuschia]

Actually the standard allows for two deep fried items per week only - eg fish snd chips = 2

http://www.schoolfoodtrust.org.uk/the-standards/the-food-based-standards/final-food-based-standards-for-school-lunches/deep-fried-food-restricted