Cycling on the pavement

[Reluctant runner]

Does anyone know what the rules are about cycling on the pavement in London? There are lots of adults who seem to do it around ED - is it allowed? Are children allowed to? What if you're cycling WITH children?

[mattC]

Not allowed ever as far as I know. But as someone who cycles a bit, I do 'fess up to using them where I can see that it's safe to do so. The roads round London are treacherous, no two ways about it.

[Keef]

Matt is right, it is illegal to cycle on the pavement. It is annoying, particularly when it's a chav with a handlebar in one hand, and a joint in the other!!!

[dulwichmum]

Oh dear Mr Keef,

I am sorry, did I nearly knock you over? I try to cycle with my joint clenched between my teeth, but sometimes I forget! It is ever so difficult on my very long bus type bicycle on the path with the kids all attached in a long line on the back like the family Von Trap, but I am usually able to manage to smoke some spliff at the same time quite safely.

[CrystalClear]

DM, I think keefs problems mainly stem from his alcohol fueled stagger!

[dulwichmum]

Dear Mr CrystalClear,

You did realise I was joking didn't you? I don't smoke weed while cycling with the kids - I just drink the odd can of Stella.

[Mark]

Does anyone know what the rules are about cycling on the pavement in London? It's illegal all over England

There are lots of adults who seem to do it around ED - is it allowed? It's still illegal

Are children allowed to? Yes if they're under 16 (which I guess most children are)

What if you're cycling WITH children? Best cycle on the road next to them, if my previous comment is wrong and they get stopped by the po-lice cycle off quicly, shaking your head and saying things like "their parents should know better"

Taken from Living Streets (Pavement Cycling PDF)

"It is an offence for a cyclist to hinder or obstruct the free passage of a footway or passage (Highway Act 1835, s 78) or to

wilfully ride on any footway or footpath (Highway Act 1835, s 72). In 1999, the Government made pavement cycling a fixed penalty offence, with offenders liable to a fine of ?20 (now raised to ?30)."

[Keef]

CrystalClear Wrote:

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> DM, I think keefs problems mainly stem from his

> alcohol fueled stagger!

Pot and kettle there sir! I suspect you wouldn't stand for it, you'd kick them off their bike and give them a black eye for no reason! ;-)

[spadetownboy]

mattC Wrote:

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> Not allowed ever as far as I know. But as someone

> who cycles a bit, I do 'fess up to using them

> where I can see that it's safe to do so. The roads

> round London are treacherous, no two ways about

> it.

yeah and so are the pavements because of selfish eejits like you.

[mattC]

All right spadeboi, but no need to be insulting and so self righteous.

As a pedestrian, motorist, skater, cyclist and jogger I feel the that I can judge well enough when it's safe to use the pavement and at what speed - against the law or not. Yes, sounds like I think I'm above things, but..is it not like going a little faster than allowed late at night on an empty motorway? Bet you've done that. If you haven't, live a little, and try not being so uptight.

[Townleygreen]

When I cycle on the pavement I am careful to slow down when pedestrians are about, and always try to stop to give way to them. Frankly in many areas the roads are just too dangerous to cycle on. I commend to you the towns of Germany and Holland, where cycling and walking goes on on the pavement, separated by a line. Can't see it working here with some of the opinions voiced here. Rather sad, as those towns are so lovely compared even to ED.

[Pierre]

I can't see any excuse for cycling on the pavement in East Dulwich, and certainly no legally defensible reason.*

The roads aren't especially safe, but that's no reason to use the pavement. You wouldn't get away with driving a car on the pavement, or riding a motorbike, with the same excuse. As a keen cyclist I think there are few things more responsible for giving us cyclists a bad image than selfish idiots riding on pavements or jumping lights, thinking that they can use weak mumblings about "safety" as an excuse for inconsiderately hindering and endangering other road (or pavement) users.

Rant over...

: P

* I must admit I cycle across the small section of pavement by Peckham Pulse to get to the crossing, but it's very wide and I do it because they put in a cycle route and a cycle crossing and forgot to make any sign that cyclists needed to get between the two.

[Townleygreen]

Dear Rant-er

DOH!

If you'd read my post, you would see I said..

"When I cycle on the pavement I am careful to slow down when pedestrians are about, and always try to stop to give way to them"

The reason for my behaviour is I am aware that the pavement is for pedestrians.

[spadetownboy]

Townleygreen Wrote:

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> Dear Rant-er

> DOH!

> If you'd read my post, you would see I said..

> "When I cycle on the pavement I am careful to slow

> down when pedestrians are about, and always try to

> stop to give way to them"

> The reason for my behaviour is I am aware that the

> pavement is for pedestrians.

tell me this what happens when you dont try to to give way to pedestrians.

[OldTimer]

Townleygreen,

It appears that you have the same "arrogance" that seems to be prevalent amongst a lot of cyclists (not all, but an ever increasing majority).....

if motorists were to take your "cyclista" approach, then we could do away with traffic lights at the very least, as these appear to be a case of, "red light = stop if you fancy doing so"

......."pedestrian crossing = for pedestrians and cyclists"

pavements are for "pedestrians and arrogant cylists who know best "

the increasing arrogance and hostility shown by cyclists may well be attributed to a build up of heat in the cavity beneath their safety helmets...

IMHO cyclists should be banned from the roads and the pavements , as they are a danger to all

[bald marauder]

Hey old timer, if you've actually cycled anywhere in London recently, you might understand why sometimes cyclists use the pavement - not that I unreservedly condone it, and certainly not on a busy shopping street...

Cycling on the pavement seems to work quite well in other parts of the world, Austria & Japan for example

[Pierre]

Townleygreen, I was neither speaking to nor listening to you.

You wrote: "Frankly in many areas the roads are just too dangerous to cycle on."

Then don't cycle.

It is illegal, inconsiderate, arrogant and stupid to ride on the pavement. You wouldn't even countenance an argument that it would make sense to drive a car on the pavement in order to avoid the "dangerous roads", so don't try and justify it if you're on a bike.

: P

[Townleygreen]

Pierre,

I WILL cycle. It is carbon neutral. At times I cycle on the pavement, but will continue always to give way to pedestrians when I do so.

I believe I am right to do so. When I believe it is safe to ride on the road, I do so. Seems reasonable to me. Others will have different views - of course - doesn't mean my views are wrong. Works well on the continent, and one day it will also be allowed here.

[Huguenot]

Cycling's a great environmentally friendly form of transport.

Yet I really struggle to believe that anyone thinks cycling on the pavement is justifiable under any but the most exceptional circumstances.

I can see how the cycling community could build themselves into such a mob hysteria at the constant threat they face on the road that they decide to visit the same crime upon pedestrians as some sort of warped quid pro quo. This is deranged.

The 'coast is clear' argument is almost cretinous - I've been hit at least twice recently stepping out of a shop and my own front gate by cyclists who perceived an empty pavement to be a free run. If I'd have been less spry it would have been broken limbs.

To not recognise this shows limited capacity for rational thought. Pavements are for all: kids, young mums, the elderly, the disabled. Allowing cyclists to use them with impunity prioritises one minority group above the needs of 95% of the population.

The only reasonable speed for a pavement is walking speed, and the law recognises that by asking cyclists to walk their bikes. You cannot 'give way' to a pedestrian unless you're matching or slower than walking pace.

If you need to put your bike on the pavement, fine, no problem, walk it.

Or perhaps I've missed the point, was this a joke??

[OldTimer]

Townleygreen Wrote:

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> Pierre,

> I WILL cycle. It is carbon neutral.

What has carbon neutrality got to do with the issue, it is illegal to ride your bicycle on the pavement.

> At times I cycle on the pavement, but will continue always to

> give way to pedestrians when I do so.

> I believe I am right to do so. When I believe it

> is safe to ride on the road, I do so. Seems

> reasonable to me. Others will have different views

> - of course - doesn't mean my views are wrong.

It is not a matter of beliefs or views, it is a matter of accepting the laws of this land, whether you agree with them or not. If you do not agree with this particular law, then you have the right to air your views to those who will listen and maybe amend the law, but until the law is changed, it will still be illegal to ride your bicycle on the pavement....or have I missed something here, and what you are saying is that you and anybody else who chooses to, may ignore any law, if you so decide.......an interesting concept

> Works well on the continent, and one day it will also be allowed here.

And until that time comes, it will still be illegal to ride your bicycle on the pavement

[blinder999]

On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

[bald marauder]

Well posted blinder999. I think, as Paul Boateng has instructed, that discretion is the key to this issue (both on the part of the police and cyclists themselves). As a pedestrian, car driver, motorbike rider, cyclist and a pushchair-pushing father, I have an affinity with everyone's point of view - and I think with consideration and empathy, the majority of people can get along fine. The odd, responsible cyclist on the pavement at a busy/dangerous junction is (metaphoriacally and literally) not going to kill anyone.

[Pierre]

I'm sure that driving my car along an empty pavement is literally and metaphorically not going to kill anyone. I could try and justify it to myself, claiming I'm scared of the roads and that I believe I'm doing the right thing. I could tell everyone that I'm being responsible. I could proclaim that somewhere in the world it's legal. I could sound very open minded and say that "others may have different views".

I would still be breaking the law.

: P

[Huguenot]

How incredibly selective of the cycling community. Just because Paul Boateng has wound out some nincompoop observation that the law isn't the law when you don't happen to agree with it, you choose to cite his brilliance because it meets your needs?

Do cyclists agree with flexibility in law when it applies to Iraq? Or arms sales to Saudi Arabia? Or cash for gongs?

What tosh. People who support this position should be embarassed.

Discretion is the watchcard for useless law - the only people to whom discretion would not be offered are the ones with the attitude to abuse it and the devious wit to get away with it.

Walk your bike because it's rational, safe, fair to other pavement users and socially inclusive. Don't choose to ride it because you think you can get away with it - believe it or not, it's not all about you.

[OldTimer]

Speaking now as my alter ego "YoungChav".......

after ten pints of stella darn the EDF, gonna get in my car and drive home

...................I believe I am right to do so. When I believe it is safe to drive in the road, I do so. Seems reasonable to me. Others will have different views - of course - doesn't mean my views are wrong. Works well on the sub-continent, and one day it will also be allowed here.........

and when I get home I'm gonna walk my dog down the street and let it shit everywhere

....cos its carbon neutral..........