Relaxing the lockdown

[JohnL]

A plan is obviously being put in place across schools, work, recreation, leisure and policing. A lot of synchronicity. I notice conversations are happening between the Government and Keir Starmer to so maybe it'll be cross house.

"Gavin Williamson has said he expects schools to be "opened in a phased manner" - with a decision to be made on the guidance of Sage. " "the Government is observing other nations who have begun to open schools again. "

"The Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD) said the Treasury?s multibillion-pound coronavirus job retention scheme needed to be made more flexible to allow furloughed staff to work reduced hours." "Sunak dropped a clear hint on Monday that the scheme could be tweaked to allow for such changes. Speaking in parliament, he said ?gradual refinements? were a key part of the government plan to end lockdown measures."

"Britons could be limited to two or three drinks when pubs reopen, a government adviser has suggested."

"Home secretary Priti Patel has said the virus is moving into a "different phase" and with that there will be "different measures". She said restrictions and in action in place are "under review", as she addressed the home affairs committee. "

"But if some areas are loosened next week, others may be tightened up,? the official said."

[Blah Blah]

"Britons could be limited to two or three drinks when pubs reopen, a government adviser has suggested."

As though this will actually work. It is completely deluded to think that environments where people are able to gather in enclosed spaces can be allowed before this virus is under complete control.

The most effective barrier to a second wave, is social distancing and mass testing. So the reopening of business needs to be done with that in mind.

[mrwb]

Like influenza it'll likely never be under complete control. The only way is with an all encompassing vaccine, that might never exist though.

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> "Britons could be limited to two or three drinks

> when pubs reopen, a government adviser has

> suggested."

>

> As though this will actually work. It is

> completely deluded to think that environments

> where people are able to gather in enclosed spaces

> can be allowed before this virus is under complete

> control.

>

> The most effective barrier to a second wave, is

> social distancing and mass testing. So the

> reopening of business needs to be done with that

> in mind.

[Blah Blah]

Sadly that may well be the case mrwb, especially if the virus regularly mutates in the same way Influenza A does. It is just too early to know yet. We have to remain hopeful that either effective drug treatments or a working vaccine emerge. We have a level of biotech now that scientists could only have dreamed of in 1918. This gives us a better than average chance of finding a way through at some point.

[seenbeen]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> Sadly that may well be the case mrwb, especially

> if the virus regularly mutates in the same way

> Influenza A does. It is just too early to know

> yet. We have to remain hopeful that either

> effective drug treatments or a working vaccine

> emerge. We have a level of biotech now that

> scientists could only have dreamed of in 1918.

> This gives us a better than average chance of

> finding a way through at some point.

There is still no vaccine for HIV though- but medication has improved. BUT how long before the next zoonotic is upon us given that the practices with animal markets resumed very soon after the lockdown of china was lifted.

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife-trafficking-campaign-wet-markets-china-coronavirus-pandemic-a9476821.html

[lameduck]

Cannot understand people limited to one or two drinks when pubs open.

what difference how much you or many you drink.

You can catch this touching door handles, getting within touching distance.

within in seconds of meeting somebody with this.

Am I missing something?

I suppose we will have to learn to live carefully, till hopefully we find a vaccination

[Blah Blah]

Zoonotic viruses can emerge from anywhere seenbeen, where there is intensive contact between animals and people. Where do you think swine flu comes from? We all farm pigs. We live with the risk of new viruses all the time. You also do not always need a vaccine to manage a virus either. Anti-viral drugs do an effective job against some viruses.

On food consumption and production, how do you tell an entire nation what they can and can not eat? Bats are the most virus ridden species on the planet, but still, people eat them all across Asia.

[fishbiscuits]

While on some level the type of exotic produce seen in these markets could be seen as analogous to the British eating game meat, I do have concerns. To me, it seems fairly logical that selling exotic imported wild animals (often alive), in a crowded fish/meat market is problematic. Who knows what parasites, bacteria and viruses they could be carrying, the the environment is perfect for them to spread.

Also, I'm not inclined to indulge cultural practices of consuming exotic (sometimes rare/endangered) animals, or animal parts, for supposed medicinal purposes. It's a regressive practice, and endangers wildlife. I see no sense in pandering to it for the sake of appearing "woke".

[seenbeen]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Zoonotic viruses can emerge from anywhere

> seenbeen, where there is intensive contact between

> animals and people. Where do you think swine flu

> comes from? We all farm pigs. We live with the

> risk of new viruses all the time. You also do not

> always need a vaccine to manage a virus either.

> Anti-viral drugs do an effective job against some

> viruses.

>

> On food consumption and production, how do you

> tell an entire nation what they can and can not

> eat? Bats are the most virus ridden species on the

> planet, but still, people eat them all across

> Asia.

Swine flu originated in Mexico....the theory about its spread centres on breaches of quarantine as it has been shown to be a recombinant virus (i.e.of several strains)

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-6-207

and fishbiscuits is exactly right....and the WHO is in china's pocket so nothing was done after SARS in 2002 and nothing PREVENTATIVE is being done now.

We can all be vegan etc but with this kind of pandemic we are ALL at the mercy of superstition and unsanitary practices

[Blah Blah]

Pandemics have originated in all continents historically. Spanish Flu for example, it is agreed by most scientists, began in North America, on a pig farm. Avian flu, can emerge anywhere, because birds are migratory. MERS was a zoonotic leap from camels. It is not always the case that unsanitary food production is the source of zoonotic transmission either. Just working around live animals, or being bitten by an animal can start a new strain of virus in humans.

On the WHO, you need to understand a bit more about what the WHO actually does. Although it is an extended branch of the UN, It has no power to sanction or dictate policy to any government.

China absolutely are at fault for their initial response to something happening in their country. But given that China is a highly secretive communist government, it is harsh to expect any outside organisation to have had knowledge of something until China herself informed them. Not until the virus started appearing outside of China, were the WHO able to receive information that was not written by China.

Where a valid criticism can be made regarding the WHO however, is in that it has been too slow in declaring, not just this viral outbreak a pandemic, but also previous outbreaks, like the last Ebola and Swine Flu ones. By your logic, that would make them in the pocket of Guinea and Mexico too! So that is where the WHO needs to look at its own failings.

Moving forward, there will be huge international pressure on China to change many things, but it won't be the WHO that can force any change, but an international raft of sanctions and other measures carried out by other governments. It is unrealistic to expect us to live in a pandemic free world, especially given how many of us there now are and how easily we move around the world. The lessons as always, will be in improving detection and response.

[Blah Blah]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

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> To me, it seems fairly logical that

> selling exotic imported wild animals (often

> alive), in a crowded fish/meat market is

> problematic.

No-one disagrees with this. Similarly, packing thousands of chickens, or cows, or pigs, into enclosed barns in close proximity has similar risks. Personally, I think many areas of food production and consumption need looking at.

> Also, I'm not inclined to indulge cultural

> practices of consuming exotic (sometimes

> rare/endangered) animals, or animal parts, for

> supposed medicinal purposes. It's a regressive

> practice, and endangers wildlife. I see no sense

> in pandering to it for the sake of appearing

> "woke".

Who is pandering to anything? I simply asked a question, around how a country like China, with huge rural areas, would Police what people eat? This is true of many countries were large numbers of people still live off the land, mainly because they are too remote or too poor to live any other way. It is a more difficult issue to address than simply closing wet markets (although that would be a good start).

[fishbiscuits]

Certainly these are risks with intensive farming around the world (swine flu example cited repeatedly) but I do have specific issues with the concept of live/wild/exotic animals in food markets, specifically.

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest you in particular were pandering to anything... more the general "zeitgeist" among left/liberal leaning social media acquaintances, who seem to think that questioning these things is ignorant or hypocritical. But the reality is that superstitious and irrational beliefs are strongly coupled with the market for these animals.

[Blah Blah]

Whilst this is true, it is hard to rewrite centuries of generational belief in any country that is still rural in many parts. China is not the only country in the developing world where long standing traditions clash with the modern world. The same can be said of culture clashes within religions too.

Education is usually the only way to fix that, and as you say, replacing superstition with science is what needs to happen.

And we have our own problems in the Western world too. The rise of belief in conspiracy theories, the rejection of science (even around this pandemic) and experts. The only way to bring everyone up to the same health standards is through a global symbiosis. I find it somewhat ironic, that at a time when nationalism is on the rise, and populism is fashionable, that a global pandemic arrives to force us all to work together again.

[fishbiscuits]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> And we have our own problems in the Western world

> too. The rise of belief in conspiracy theories,

> the rejection of science (even around this

> pandemic) and experts.

OMG don't even get me started on those nutters. I've had to unfriend people on Facebook this week, because of 5G/Covid nonsense. And also idiots actually defending Trump's disinfectant episode. Also found out that an old friend of mine is a flat earther (she is also a medical doctor... go figure...)

[DulwichFox]

Trump is an idiot suggesting injecting disinfectant..

... BUT Perhaps the answer could lay in a medicine in the form of an Inhaler.

Like the ones used for Asthma.

Something that would reach the lungs.. and maybe destroy the Virus.

DulwichFox

[DulwichFox]

As for relaxing the lock-down, I cannot see Pubs and Bars opening this year.

It would be dangerous to open before Christmas and the New Year which are the busiest times of the year.

Opening of Some restaurants MAY be possible if they are big enough to remove some tables to make

space to allow for Social Distancing and leave enough tables to make opening up viable

[KidKruger]

Ending Current Restrictions = Spike In Deaths

We?ve not even had a lockdown yet in UK.

Just cos some of us are still alive doesn?t mean we can?t catch it, just that we haven?t yet.

[wordsworth]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> Ending Current Restrictions = Spike In Deaths

>

> We?ve not even had a lockdown yet in UK.

> Just cos some of us are still alive doesn?t mean

> we can?t catch it, just that we haven?t yet.

True say.

[fishbiscuits]

It's all going to be very gradual, isn't it. The biggest factor will be individual behaviour, which as we've seen, is already becoming more relaxed.

[teddyboy23]

Agree with kid this is not a proper lockdown.unlike China Spain Italy and some other countries.

[gromit316]

trump did not say inject disinfectant.

[DulwichFox]

gromit3:16 Wrote:

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> trump did not say inject disinfectant.

YES he Did..

BBC News

Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment

US President Donald Trump has been lambasted by the medical community after suggesting research into whether coronavirus might be treated by injecting disinfectant into the body.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

[Blah Blah]

It does not matter what Trump said exactly. The point is that he displayed a complete lack of any ability to understand the difference between tackling a virus on a surface, and tackling a virus that has already infected human cells. And he displayed that ignorance in spite of having given his ear for weeks to one of the leading pandemic experts in America! So you have to wonder just how much he actually comprehends about any of it.

[wordsworth]

Please let's not talk about Trump.

[Sue]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

-------------------------------------

> Also found out that an old friend of mine is a

> flat earther (she is also a medical doctor... go

> figure...)

😮