Kent Grammar Schools - how far are kids commuting?

[Tanza]

I am hearing anecdotal reports about people in East Dulwich sending their kids to the Kent Grammar schools via the train at Forest Hill/Denmark Hill.

I'd really love to know if many people are doing this, how long the commute is and how successfully it is working for them. How do the children cope with the travel, doing homework at the end of the longer day and in terms of (presumably) not having local friends?

I've noticed girls travelling into Victoria via Denmark Hill and then getting the bus to Greycoats Hospital School in Pimlico. So I wondered where else in London kids are travelling to from East Dulwich and how that journey is working out?

(This question is a genuine query, I'm hoping my child will get into a local secondary in due course, but I'd be very grateful for any insight into the state school choices further afield other people are making. It is a tricky question to pose at the school gates without seeming to be making a judgement about other people's decisions.)

[womanofdulwich]

I don't know about grammar schools, but Greycoats school is not in Pimlico,it is more Westminster, about 10 min walk from Victoria, quite a lot of girls who go there get the train at HErne Hill/ Brixton in the morning.

[Mrs TP]

I know of a boy who gets the train from E Dul to Sutton Grammer and his sister gets bus from E Dul to DKH and train to Victoria for Greycoats - works for them. Early Sat starts for boy with sports matches and friends are scattered throughout SE London. Girl just recently started and seems to be coping fine.

Didn't appeal to us and we have gone for a more local secondary but then the local schools didn't appeal to them.

Each to their own.

For me 11 is too young for this more serious commuting and I do know of one girl who has gone to 6th form at a Kent Grammar but again after doing the rest at Greycoats.

You know your child and what they will / won't cope with. Mine would have coped but would not have been happy with it everyday.

[Renata Hamvas]

Denmark Hill/Peckham Rye/Nunhead towards Dartford- Bexley Grammars or Dartford boys/girls

towards Bromley-Newstead Woods & St Olav's

Honor Oak Park/Forest Hill/ Herne Hill southbound towards Wilson's and Sutton Grammars

some also travel very far by bus as buses are free.

There are children doing this from the area daily, around 1 hour commute each way (think up to 7am to 4.30pm day, could your child cope at 11 with this with homework on top?). Other issues to consider- prep for highly competitive 11+ exams, peer group will be very scattered geographically, after school/weekend activities/ parent's evening etc.

It's too late to apply for any of these schools for this year if your child hasn't sat the tests, they all tend to have exam entry dates in June/July with September exams.

Renata

[Growlybear]

My daughter commuted from West Dulwich to Newstead Wood for six years without a problem. For the first year she used the coach service which the PTA arranged from Crystal Palace to the school gates of Newstead Wood and St Olave's, but that was much less reliable (and much more expensive) than the train. The children built up friendship groups on the coach and train, and it was an enjoyable social part of their day. We never found the journey to Orpington an issue at all, and it would have been worth commuting twice the distance for the quality of education that she had. When we were looking at secondary schools, we really couldn't find a local state school that we were prepared to send our daughter to, and although we were tempted by Alleyn's, even with the maximum scholarship the fees would still have made a significant impact on our standard of living, and I don't believe that the education she would have had at Alleyn's would have been any better than Newstead Wood.

The drive to Orpington for parents' evenings wasn't onerous - it's a maximum of 45 minutes door to door. And although the school takes children from a wide catchment area, this means that there are so many feeder primary schools that very few girls join the school with pre-formed friendship groups, which makes it much better for everyone to fit in and find new friends. We never found weekend activities a problem - a couple of trips to Bromley, Orpington, or Blackheath in a week really wasn't an issue.

I know of a number of boys and girls who have commuted from Forest Hill to Wallington Grammar, and also children who have travelled to the Bexley grammar schools, and Dartford Grammar and none of them have had any regrets.

[Pugwash]

Places like Newstead Woods are very over subscribed - my grandaughter sat the entry examin and family were warned that only 100 pupls would be accepted and they would need to have a pass rate of 97 - 100%. Over a thousand pupils sat the exan with my grandaughter, and they took the highest 100. The vast majority of which had had private lessons for over 2 years. Granddaughter was 135 in exam ranking. A friend's daughter got accept this September and lives in Catford.

Work Colleagues inform me that their children have applied to Bromley and Bexley Schools as do not want their children to go to Lewisham Schools - one child has sat 6 exams for different school.

[Otta]

I think that people who send their kids miles away to good schools are a bit pathetic. Just a personal opinion.

[LondonMix]

Wow, that's harsh. Why do you feel so strongly about it?

[Saffron]

His parents made him walk to school... miles and miles... in the snow... uphill both ways. ;-)

[Otta]

I don't think it's harsh, and I'm not talking about a school in Westminster or Pimlico. But I think people should support their local(ish) schools.

If you want to spend thousands on private education that is your lookout (although I wouldn't even if I did have that sort of cash), but if you can't afford it you should send your kid to a school reasonably close to home and get behind that school.

Making your kid travel miles away every day just so they can live out your ambitions is pathetic, and I make no apology for that belief even if it is unpopular.

[LondonMix]

Its not always about parents. My parents gave me the choice at 13 in the US and I wanted to go to the selective school that was further away (I had the choice between 3- my local school, the equivalent of a free school and the selective school). There was no sitting exams though, it was just based on your scores on the standardised exams everyone took and the selective school specifically found me and came to recruit me vs the other way around. The program sounded really exciting and to be honest, I was bored even in the advanced placement courses I was taking at my state junior school. The curriculum sounded more interesting and I was excited about being surrounded by other students that were at the same academic level as me. Everyone in our tiny program had more or less the same perspective. In the US the system is totally different though so perhaps here it is much more about the parents than the kids but I think its unreasonable to make such sweeping assumptions about what's best for other people's children.

My own experience not going to school close to home was fine. Made very good life-long friends and kept some friends from junior school, participated in several after school activities etc. Its different in the US though as everyone has to drive anyway so its just an extra 15 -20 min in the car and by 16 a lot of people were driving themselves (in old beat up junkers).

[Jessie]

I did my A Levels about 10 miles away from where I lived - my choice, too - and it didn't bother me at all, but then I was an older teenager making that decision. I wouldn't want to send a younger child off to a school in Kent, and agree with Otta about utilising local schools.

[Otta]

Yeah A Levels are a different kettle of fish, you're old enough to make a decision on such things, and a year or two later you could be leaving home all together for uni.

An 11 year old is different though IMO.

[Growlybear]

We gave our daughter complete freedom to decide which secondary school she went to, and would have supported her decision whichever school she had chosen. She was offered places at Haberdashers', Prendergast, Alleyn's, Old Palace, and Graveney, but was adamant from Year 5 that she wanted to go to Newstead Wood, and made her decision in the knowledge that she would have a long journey, for up to seven years. If she had wanted to go to a local school, she would have done so, but she chose the school that felt right for her, and never had any regrets. I would have been a bit anxious about her travelling on the train from Year 7, and the school coach gave us an easy and convenient alternative until we were satisfied that she was OK using the train. On reflection, there were so many girls catching the train from West Dulwich and Penge East that I think she would have been fine from the outset, but I didn't realise just how many girls commuted from this far away.

[Growlybear]

Pugwash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Places like Newstead Woods are very over

> subscribed - my grandaughter sat the entry examin

> and family were warned that only 100 pupls would

> be accepted and they would need to have a pass

> rate of 97 - 100%. Over a thousand pupils sat the

> exan with my grandaughter, and they took the

> highest 100. The vast majority of which had had

> private lessons for over 2 years. Granddaughter

> was 135 in exam ranking. A friend's daughter got

> accept this September and lives in Catford.

> Work Colleagues inform me that their children have

> applied to Bromley and Bexley Schools as do not

> want their children to go to Lewisham Schools -

> one child has sat 6 exams for different school.

The Year 7 intake at Newstead Wood has been 135 for a number years, not 100, but is being increased to 160 for 2013/14. Unless things have changed dramatically since my daughter was there, most girls did not have private tutoring to prepare them for the exam - the school actively discouraged this on the basis that it is very hard to prepare for the type of entrance tests that the children sit.

[LondonMix]

I would hope most kids are given the choice. Everyone is well acquainted with the stereotype of the school obsessed middle class parent who piles so much pressure on their kids they become depressed and develop eating disorders etc. However, most people I know just want their kids to be happy and make decisions based on what they think will best suit the individual child (often reaching different conclusions for different children in the family).

To the OP, you know your child. Discuss it with him/ her. If they are really academic, they will thrive in a school that is able to challenge them and the pros are likely to outweigh the cons if your child is excited by the prospect and you think they can cope. There is no single right answer. I didn't really start to enjoy school until I went to my selective high school so for me there are clearly no regrets even though my days were longer than would otherwise have been the case. I did some of my homework on the commute if memory serves.

[Growlybear]

I agree, LondonMix. The decision my daughter made was right for her - she was given complete freedom of choice becasue we wanted her to be happy at school, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with us 'making her travel miles away every day just so she could live out our ambitions'.

[Otta]

And that is great, your daughter was clearly well informed.

If you think every child is the same, I would suggest you're wrong.

[Growlybear]

The OP asked for people's experiences, and I gave mine. I can't see anywhere where I've suggested that every child is the same.

[Otta]

Look I'm not trying to argue with you, but you quoted me and were clearly keen to prove that you were not a pushy parent, and that is great. It sounds like you did exactly the right thing in your daughter's case.

Well done you.

[Growlybear]

Sorry, but I interpreted your responses towards my posts in this thread as being somewhat aggressive. I was clearly wrong. :)

[Saffron]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yeah A Levels are a different kettle of fish,

> you're old enough to make a decision on such

> things, and a year or two later you could be

> leaving home all together for uni.

>

> An 11 year old is different though IMO.

There also plenty of 11 year olds who are capable of making this decision, and it isn't "pathetic" if it's the right decision for that family to have their child attend a school that isn't near to them. The issue isn't always about supporting local schools, is it? It can also be about finding the right school for the child. Nothing pathetic about that.

[Otta]

I don't claim to be an expert on 11 year olds, so if some can make a decision on their choice of secondary school that's great and I see nothing wrong in that.

I would strongly argue though with any parent who said they couldn't find a single school to suit their child within their home borough or the neighbouring boroughs.

Some parents believe that their child should go to "the best" school, wherever that may be, because of a sense of entitlement, and I find that pathetic.

If you disagree with me that's fine, but it's still my opinion.

[Growlybear]

I am a little puzzled that, by supporting my daughter in choosing what she felt was the best education, I am being labelled as pathetic. It was nothing to do with me or my husband that we had a child who was particularly bright, but I think we had a responsibility to support her in achieving as much as she wanted to. We moved her from her infants school because the school did not provide differentiated work and she was getting really bored. We were lucky enough to get a place in a really outstanding junior school where she, along with every other child, had their individual needs met and nurtured, regardless of how academically able they were, and every child was encouraged to achieve to the best of their ability.

We looked at most of the local secondary schools, state and public; my daughter didn't like Sydenham, Waverley, Haberdashers', or Prendergast, and SHE didn't think that they would challenge and stretch her enough. We applied to Newstead Wood because we lived in their catchment area (which has since been slightly reduced) and my daughter found the general atmosphere really stimulating when we looked round the school. She sat the entrance exam, got a place, and wanted to accept that place in preference to all the other offers she had received. A 10 mile journey to school with extremely easy connections, was hardly arduous.

I have not said that what was the best education for my daughter would necessarily be the best for anyone else's child - every child is an individual with different needs. Personally, I believe that my daughter made the right choice FOR HER, and I don't think that she would have been as motivated or achieved as well at most other schools. She had only one chance at getting the right education for her and thankfully she made the right choice. Supporting her in choosing to attend a secondary school that anyone in the catchment area can apply for is, I believe, good parenting rather than pathetic.

[Otta]

Please look at my post again, I have not said that people in your position are pathetic, quite the opposite.

Please stop taking anything I say personally. It's always the same when you try to have a discussion on this forum, people assume you're attacking them.

In the post right before yours I said

I don't claim to be an expert on 11 year

olds, so if some can make a decision on

their choice of secondary school that's great

and I see nothing wrong in that.

The reason I said that was specifically so that you and anyone in a similar position would not think I was calling them pathetic.

Good old EDF Family Room.