"Vote Them Out May 2022" flyer

[eastdulwichrover]

This came through our door yesterday. Links to a website with long diatribes against lots of Labour candidates and the only info on anyone else are a couple of chirpy descriptions of Tory candidates.

Local Tories, you need to own up to this being your campaign, and to put your name to it surely?

Other local parties, if you genuinely are involved in this as is claimed, have a think about who you're allies with. I'll give you a hint, "wine fridge" and "hostile environment".

This post is not an endorsement of the LTN scheme or Labour - but it is a request for the local Tory party to run an actual Tory campaign for their own party, rather than this.

[sanda]

The local conservatives seem to have turned into the political wing of the Dulwich Alliance with all the same negative tactics. You can see it in their choice of candidates in Dulwich Village and also who they now get out knocking on doors in their campaign photos. Some of those folks are really unpleasant individuals, if you?ve lived locally for a long time you?ll spot some of the notorious characters. I?ve never known such negativity and dishonesty in the area in campaigning. But even if they do officially deny any association with this campaign, I?m not sure that anyone would believe them.

If Dulwich Village do elect Clive Rates and Tristan Honeyballs onto Southwark Council it will just be like when Boris and Nigel Farage go to Brussels. Nothing productive will get done, and the spectacle will be deeply embarrassing for everyone.

[ab29]

As long as the one party state which is Southwark is broken up am ok with it. Plus there finally will be someone who wants LTN removed.

[JohnL]

Leaflets (just guessing not real)

Tories "Get them out"

Labour "Get them out"

Lib Dems "Only the Lib Dems can beat Labour in Southwark"

[Spartacus]

Something similar appeared on here briefly, not sure if they are a party endorsed group but the idea of an unbiased summary of all parties / candidates standing in May would be very useful

Sadly the flyer does appear to be heavily one sided but I do agree that the single party state that is Southwark needs a shake up

Just found the old post

https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,2254104,2265645#msg-2265645

[eastdulwichrover]

The summaries on their website are frankly ridiculous in their skewed nature - the Lib Dems standing in Dulwich are critiqued on pretty flimsy grounds while the Tories are vocally lauded. It's telling that there are no names attached to this except "J Smith" who supposedly printed the flyers.

Let's face it, this is a Tory front trying hard to pretend otherwise. Don't go to this site expecting objective information

[Bic Basher]

I wouldn't expect anything from the pro-LTN groups either who seem to think we live in a car-free paradise where women and young children can ride safely on the Court Lane/Calton Avenue junction without any of the negatives of the scheme.

[VotethemoutMay22]

Good morning, EDF. Just a reminder about who we are, which is on our website: http://votethemoutmay22.org.uk/faqs/ We are a group of people living on different roads across the Dulwich area who are fed up with our current Labour councillors because they are not representing the needs of the whole community. As individuals, we support different political parties at national level, and have voted in the past for different parties at local level. We have come together now because we want to get rid of our Labour-led council, which has pushed through road closures against the wishes of local people.

Everything we have written about the candidates comes from information we can find in the public domain, and we have declared our sources.

When we started the website, we thought we would know by now who was standing in each ward, and who would be likely to overturn Labour. Unfortunately, information is still patchy - we haven't heard yet who all the candidates are for each party (for example, in Goose Green). According to Southwark's website, the last day for people to declare they're standing for election is 5 April. We will update our website as soon as we can. Our aim is to recommend for each ward the candidates most likely to overturn Labour, whichever party they represent.

Thank you.

[Sally Eva]

" campaigning" is covered by the laws on election literature, which, by law, must contain lots of detail about the originator. Full details here: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/imprints-election-campaign-material

[Jenijenjen]

This is why we need to know the individuals who are behind this campaign claiming political impartiality as only then can we decide whether they are indeed impartial.

On another thread on the Forum they've made the most ludicrous of statements:

"We're sticking to the single issue of LTNs (traffic, transport, road closures) because we believe this links directly to so many other issues relating to social equality, including housing, health, education, local business, protected characteristics, etc."

So policies aren't important or necessary regarding housing, health, education, local business, protected characteristics, etc. because get rid of the LTNs and any issues will disappear.

[DulvilleRes]

Given that much of the anti LTN campaigning has focused on the perceived lack of transparency and accountability on the part of Southwark Council, this website strikes me as somewhat lacking in that regard. This is important because the website/ campaign is a direct collective intervention into the electoral arena.

In the spirit of transparency, the people behind this campaign/ site should name who they are and where the cash for the campaign comes from. The blanket statement of their funding being 'A whip round' doesn't cut it for me in terms of the detail needed.

It could be entirely coincidental, but there is a strong correlation between much of the focus on the LTN issue I've seen from the Conservative party local campaigning to date, and the stated singular focus on LTN's of this 'vote them out' campaign. I think Dulwich voters like myself need more information on this campaign than is currently being provided to form their own view on this. Maybe the local Conservative Party, or indeed anyone else standing, could help by providing an assurance that there is no link, formal or informal, whatsoever to this campaign.

[JohnL]

With all the Russian interference that is going on I think we need some kind of vetting system for political activity in UK politics.

[mac4]

There is already vetting to the extent that it is clearly stated who may stand as a candidate and also that certain people are excluded from standing as an MP:

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/2021-09/UKPGE%20Part%201%20Can%20you%20stand%20for%20election.pdf

Any extension of vetting, for example to take into account a candidate's views, would be very undemocratic.

[legalalien]

Much as I support the "Vote them Out" sentiment, I'm not keen on this initiative either. Doubtless supporters will say that various of the groups who have campaigned for the LTNs aren't entirely transparent either - but it would be better to take the moral high ground and stick to principles of openness etc. The job of comparing parties' policies locally would be better done by local newspapers. Although I'm not sure anyone reads local newspapers much, so there may be a gap in the market.

I'm intrigued to know about the local notorious characters. I've only been here 15 years (about ten minutes by Dulwich standards) and haven't come across them yet as far as I know - obviously I don't move in the right circles!

[eastdulwichrover]

Glad to see "vote them out" posting on here but still totally unwilling to give their names, or properly address the obvious pro-Conservative Party claims on their supposedly non party political website.

Come clean - tell us who you are. The fact that you still won't, but you run a pro Conservative website, says quite a lot I think.

Also re "we've given our sources for information on candidates" - this isn't true. There's a weirdly specific claim about a Labour councillor and a "fondness for advice about umbrellas" for instance, which seems to come from a brief 2020 twitter interaction. Again unreferenced and hardly the same scrutiny as the Tory candidates are given.

Perhaps more tellingly, there's no sourcing for the chatty accounts of the Tory candidates' interests and jobs - they're not hard to find online, but neither is any of the other info on candidates, yet no citations are given for them. I'm assuming they didn't bother to put sources for the info because they either wrote the website themselves, or the person who wrote it knows them well.

Again, nice try, but this does nothing to counter the pretty obvious source of this campaign, which is now fairly obviously the local Conservative Party who seem unwilling to put their party logo on this campaign, and I can't quite work out why.

[Bic Basher]

Once again there are people on here who think anything that is against Labour/Southwark policy is a "Tory"

It's typical hard-left assumptions against people who have been practical in their reasoning against a policy that benefits the few rather than the many. The fact we have environmentalists accepting a Tory policy because it suits their agenda speaks volumes.

[eastdulwichrover]

Incidentally re environmentalists, the website doesn't mention the Green Party at all.

The reason I'm calling this a pro Tory website, is because it is, in its content, a partisan pro Tory website.

It talks down the Lib Dem candidates who are also running on an anti LTN slate and praises the Tory candidates. It's not even subtle.

[Heart108]

@ Vote Them Out" IF you are too scared to identify yourselves by name - then you have zero credibility and no right to be taken seriously. At least those Labour Councillors you criticise are clear what they stand for and can be contacted by name.

If you want to participate in a grownup political debate and lobby voters with pamphlets and a website then say who you are.

You tactics are straight out of the Facebook/Vote Leave/Trump playbook - anonymous negative vitriol.

[ab29]

It is just like Clean Air Dulwich - ferocious pro LTN supporters - cannot find a single name on the internet as to who these people are. Friends and families of the local labour councillors? Who knows?

[goldilocks]

The Vote them Out thing is very suspect - they've tried to look credible, but as has been posted all parties except the Tories are criticised. The criticism of the Lib Dems who have seemingly the same 'take out the LTN' policy as the Tories is particularly 'weird'.

Also entertaining profiles section - despite being a clear Tory mouthpiece the best they can find to say about Tristan the Tory prospective cllr is that he is a solicitor and runner! Mind you compared to Raghav Parkash of the Lib Dems 'Not sure where he lives', its pretty extensive!

[CPR Dave]

The "hostile environment" was invented by the Labour Party, ffs.

Liam Byrne was home secretary in 2007 when he came up with this "We are trying to create a much more hostile environment in this country if you are here illegally." (Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/16/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices)

It's not surprising people want to vote Labour out when they steadfastly refuse to take any responsibility for their own policies (not just the hostile environment, but failed LTNs too).

[Spartacus]

Heart108 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> @ Vote Them Out" IF you are too scared to

> identify yourselves by name - then you have zero

> credibility and no right to be taken seriously.

> At least those Labour Councillors you criticise

> are clear what they stand for and can be contacted

> by name.

>

This amused me , posting anonymously on a public website saying that someone else who is also anonymous has no credibility.

That's almost a line for an Alanis Morissette song

[dulwichlawproject]

Just seen this on twitter:

Conservatives appear to be denying that the group has anything to do with them.

[goldilocks]

I mean we could keep picking out tiny bits of the comments here, or we could focus on the bigger picture which is that someone has 'created what is supposed to look like a local campaigning group thats just fed up with the Labour administration, and wouldn't it be great if everyone joined them, whereas in reality it looks increasingly like its been put together by the Tories to get past the fact that they're Tories and give the impression that everyone else is doing it

Once again - Clive and Tristan aren't essentially independents standing on a Conservative ticket - they're Conservatives who have chosen to stand for the Tory party.

[sanda]

dulwichlawproject Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just seen this on twitter:

>

> https://twitter.com/THoneyborne/status/15084380807

> 09173257

>

> Conservatives appear to be denying that the group

> has anything to do with them.

Not quite? Tristan says ?neither Clive nor I have ever had any association with the group?. Given that Tristan is a lawyer advising offshore trusts used for ?cross-border planning? (which means tax avoidance) I?m quite sure he is able to very carefully choose his words? so note that he doesn?t say the Conservatives have not been associated with Vote them Out. Just that neither he or Clive have been associated.

This is beginning to feel a lot like the Downing Street parties?

Anyone know what Clive?s background is?