Impact of Goodrich and St Anthony's School Streets.

[Pugwash]

Notice that cars are disregarding the 8-9 and 3-4 ban and still driving down Etherow Street. Cars being parked on the corner of Barry (where the railings are) and across residents drives. this also affects buses trying to get through the narrower gap at the bend of the road.

Residents in the Friern Road Flats have complained of cars parking across their vehicle entrances - coming before 3 pm to avoid the fines and staying until 4 pm. Concerns raised with police as to fears that emergency services would not be able to access the flats in case of fire/illness.  Not seen Parking Attendants around to issue penalty notices.

[march46]

Worth raising with local councillors or directly to [email protected]

[malumbu]

Sad that drivers, and I expect particularly parents, behave so irresponsibly.  

If not putting you at personal risk get a photo of the vehicle and the driver and report it to the school.  I know that Goodrich are very keen to encourage parents to not to do this sort of thing.

[beansprout]

8 hours ago, Pugwash said:

Notice that cars are disregarding the 8-9 and 3-4 ban and still driving down Etherow Street. Cars being parked on the corner of Barry (where the railings are) and across residents drives. this also affects buses trying to get through the narrower gap at the bend of the road.

Residents in the Friern Road Flats have complained of cars parking across their vehicle entrances - coming before 3 pm to avoid the fines and staying until 4 pm. Concerns raised with police as to fears that emergency services would not be able to access the flats in case of fire/illness.  Not seen Parking Attendants around to issue penalty notices.

You frequently in the past, have mentioned about local police.. believe they meet residents in church top end of Barry Road.. Christchurch? Why not as you have the contacts, mention to them as opposed to EDF? Or are you gathering public opinion… been going on for years!!!

[Pugwash]

The Dulwich Hill SNT have already been informed by other Barry Road residents and they are going to request that Parking Attendants  'visit the area

The next Dulwich Hill Police Meeting is in April - not yet sure of the date. This is an early evening meeting, not yet got a date for the next Cuppa with a Copper (daytime meeting). But will post on EDF once I have more details.

Car Parking from St Anthony's' parents has always been a problem. I was on their PTA some 30 years ago when my daughter was a pupil there. It was Etherow Street, Norcroft Gardens residents who bore the brunt of the poor parking and the abuse from parents.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I live close to a local primary and the number of parents who park dangerously and sit with their engines idling both at drop off and pick up is ridiculous. I know at least one child was in a near miss after getting out of a double parked car. A targeted education campaign alongside some robust enforcement would be welcome. 

People seem completely inured to the danger cars pose; The responsibility that comes with operating fast moving heavy machinery in vicinity to other people is not taken nearly seriously enough by many imo.

It's also a shame that people often get aggressive if asked to turn their engine off, even when surrounded by kids breathing in the exhaust fumes from their cars.

In the vast majority of cases, people are driving extremely short distances to local primary schools. 

Edited March 4 by Earl Aelfheah

[Penguin68]

2 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

In the vast majority of cases, people are driving extremely short distances to local primary schools

And you know that how? 

[malumbu]

Because most children live within relatively close vicinity of their primary schools.

[Penguin68]

Up to about a mile, frequently (some do have much smaller catchment areas) but for a young child a mile is not the 10 to 12 minute walk of an adult but perhaps 20 to 25 minutes. Which can be quite a tiring start to a school day. And the adult may then need to get off to work, possibly in a different direction. Which significantly adds to the commute time. A couple of minutes drive to the school may be saving 30-40 minutes of the adults time at the start of the working day. 

[CPR Dave]

This feels like a targeted attack on Catholics who don't actually all live within extremely short distances, or even relatively close vicinity to a state primary school affiliated to their own religion.

[march46]

That’s quite a take on what’s seen by most people as an essential scheme to keep kids safe around the school gates. 

[malumbu]

2 hours ago, Penguin68 said:

Up to about a mile, frequently (some do have much smaller catchment areas) but for a young child a mile is not the 10 to 12 minute walk of an adult but perhaps 20 to 25 minutes. Which can be quite a tiring start to a school day. And the adult may then need to get off to work, possibly in a different direction. Which significantly adds to the commute time. A couple of minutes drive to the school may be saving 30-40 minutes of the adults time at the start of the working day. 

How far did you go to get to primary school?  Mine was about a mile, we bussed it until we were old enough to walk (about 7) when we could spend the bus money on sweets. Particularly on the way home as it was downhill.  Sadly my teeth have since suffered.

2 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

This feels like a targeted attack on Catholics who don't actually all live within extremely short distances, or even relatively close vicinity to a state primary school affiliated to their own religion.

That is really a left field comment.  Growing up I knew nothing about faith schools.  At Youth Club I found out that some of the kids from Irish backgrounds got the bus to a 'Sacred Heart'. I didn't understand why.  I do now, sort of (believing that schooling should be secular)

London appears to be well served by faith schools.  The vast majority going to faith schools or others, will be within a relatively close distance.

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

14 hours ago, Penguin68 said:

Up to about a mile, frequently (some do have much smaller catchment areas) but for a young child a mile is not the 10 to 12 minute walk of an adult but perhaps 20 to 25 minutes. Which can be quite a tiring start to a school day. And the adult may then need to get off to work, possibly in a different direction. Which significantly adds to the commute time. A couple of minutes drive to the school may be saving 30-40 minutes of the adults time at the start of the working day. 

Up to a mile. Another way to say that is less than a mile for the majority. That is walking distance for any able bodied person. We have an epidemic of inactivity and obesity. We also have a lot of serious injuries and deaths on our roads, issues of congestion, poor air quality, and serious climate change occurring. We should not be encouraging people to use heavy machinery to travel extremely short distances that are easily walked imo.

I also regularly see people sitting in their cars with the engine idling. It's not most, it's a handful. The Schools also recognise this and regularly remind parents not to do it, so it's not just my observation.

 

Edited Thursday at 10:29 by Earl Aelfheah

[Penguin68]

1 hour ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

We have an epidemic of inactivity and obesity.

And I am not standing in your way to address that for you, but you are not appointed to address that for me, or anyone else.

1 hour ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

We also have a lot of serious injuries and deaths on our roads,

Actually, not a lot locally, considering the weight of traffic. And our roads (overall in the UK) are substantially safer (accidents per traveller mile) than in many comparable countries. Injuries and road deaths have been (thank goodness) generally on the decline in the UK.

1 hour ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

Another way to say that is less than a mile for the majority

You don't know that for the schools in question, and frankly neither do I. My guess would be that the majority fall in the quarter to three quarter mile radii - but that's just an estimate.

1 hour ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

issues of congestion, poor air quality,

There are those who argue these have been exacerbated by traffic blocking measures locally.

[Earl Aelfheah]

1 hour ago, Penguin68 said:

And I am not standing in your way to address that for you, but you are not appointed to address that for me, or anyone else

Not sure where I suggested appointment to anything? I just said that imo we shouldn't encourage people to drive distances of less than a mile. You disagree?

1 hour ago, Penguin68 said:

Actually, not a lot locally, considering the weight of traffic. And our roads (overall in the UK) are substantially safer (accidents per traveller mile) than in many comparable countries. Injuries and road deaths have been (thank goodness) generally on the decline in the UK.

3,707 people killed or seriously injured in road traffic collisions in London each year, approximately 29,537 in Great Britain. I consider that too many. Again, you're free to disagree.

1 hour ago, Penguin68 said:

There are those who argue these [congestion and pollution] have been exacerbated by traffic blocking measures locally.

Yes, but with absolutely zero evidence. Apparently encouraging people to drive distances of less than a mile doesn't add to congestion or pollution? 

Edited Thursday at 13:31 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

Apparently encouraging people to drive distances of less than a mile doesn't add to congestion or pollution? 

No but it does if those people who insist on driving less than a mile are spending more of that time in congestion - does it not? That appears to be pretty commonsense.

[Earl Aelfheah]

13 minutes ago, Rockets said:

No but it does if those people who insist on driving less than a mile are spending more of that time in congestion - does it not? That appears to be pretty commonsense.

People in motor vehicles are the congestion.

I don't understand how people can say they're concerned about congestion, whilst implying that we shouldn't be discouraging car journeys, even for trips less than a mile.

Edited Thursday at 14:32 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

19 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

People in motor vehicles are the congestion.

I don't understand how people can say they're concerned about congestion, whilst implying that we shouldn't be discouraging car journeys, even for trips less than a mile.

No, too many motor vehicles for a road is the cause of congestion. 

What people are saying is if you force more cars down fewer roads and that leads to congestion then pollution will increase. Again - commonsense.

And if the tools you are deploying to discourage cars journeys are leading to more congestion then the whole exercise has been pointless. Again - commonsense.

Closing streets to traffic during school hours only works if people stop using their cars. If they don't then you are moving the cars from one street to another and are increasing congestion. Again - commonsense.

[Earl Aelfheah]

3 minutes ago, Rockets said:

What people are saying is if you force more cars down fewer roads and that leads to congestion then pollution will increase.

Yes, pages and pages on this. The view has been expressed many times. No evidence has been offered of increased congestion or pollution. This is not a thread about LTNs.

3 minutes ago, Rockets said:

And if the tools you are deploying to discourage cars journeys are leading to more congestion then the whole exercise has been pointless. Again - commonsense.

''Common sense' would tell you that the world is flat. Thankfully, we are post enlightenment and don't rely on 'common sense' for answers to complex problems.

Again, it's hard to take seriously concerns about congestion, from people implying that it's fine to use a car for almost any sort of trip, even where it's less than a mile.

Edited Thursday at 14:57 by Earl Aelfheah

[malumbu]

The original post was about selfish drivers, their actions cause hazard, can block roads and inconvenience locals.

Yet @Rockets

and @Penguin68 you seem to have turned this into another thread that is against restrictions on motorists, and by association that we should not have school streets.  Most would find this abhorrant.

I've asked one of you what your experience was when you were at school, but no reply.  So I will ask both of you about your own school days and those of your immediate family.

I've had a nephew and niece that went to private school, due to SEND, and one certainly has been drive in a fair distance, but otherwise virtually all my close family walked to school, or used the bus.

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

The original post was about selfish drivers, their actions cause hazard, can block roads and inconvenience locals.

Yup, and your point is what exactly as what we are saying amplifies that and validates the point of this thread. Selfish drivers and driving doesn't magically go away if you put in a school street. It just moves to another street which is the very point the OP was, in part, making.

Again. Commonsense.

Just by putting in an intervention of any kind does not magically fix a problem. It shifts it somewhere else. All they succeed in doing is managing the symptoms not the cause.

Has anyone bothered to look into why so many schools have a problem with this? I very often see people parking on Court Lane, well out of sight from anyone at the school, and decamping kids on bikes and scooters to wheel the last bit to Dulwich Hamlet school  - no doubt to try and convince their friends that they no longer use a car to get their offspring to school!

[beansprout]

Oh for God sake, walk your children to school..  no school during Covid.. now future is zero.. go drive your cars, when you don’t give a shite .. lazy.. most able folk can walk.. just a bubble leading to…….

[malumbu]

1 hour ago, beansprout said:

Oh for God sake, walk your children to school..  no school during Covid.. now future is zero.. go drive your cars, when you don’t give a shite .. lazy.. most able folk can walk.. just a bubble leading to…….

I like the cut of your jib

 

2 hours ago, Rockets said:

Yup, and your point is what exactly as what we are saying amplifies that and validates the point of this thread. Selfish drivers and driving doesn't magically go away if you put in a school street. It just moves to another street which is the very point the OP was, in part, making.

Again. Commonsense.

Just by putting in an intervention of any kind does not magically fix a problem. It shifts it somewhere else. All they succeed in doing is managing the symptoms not the cause.

Has anyone bothered to look into why so many schools have a problem with this? I very often see people parking on Court Lane, well out of sight from anyone at the school, and decamping kids on bikes and scooters to wheel the last bit to Dulwich Hamlet school  - no doubt to try and convince their friends that they no longer use a car to get their offspring to school!

Oh for Pete's sake, please get from under your blanket!  Let's give you an example.  Schools have zig zags and double yellows outside to reduce risks to children.  We all see parents ignoring that.  So some schools and local authorities make a stronger effort to enforce this.  These parents will then go and park somewhere else possibly causing mayhem there.  So by extension of what you said above all streets around schools, and drive ways, should be open for parking during the school run.

Make it a more difficult and some, not all, will stop driving their kids to school.

You (and Penguin) are ignoring my questions, here and elsewhere.  Do you have a guilty secret?  Did you drive your kids to school and/or were you driven?  I'm sure we would all love to hear.  

[Penguin68]

48 minutes ago, malumbu said:

You (and Penguin) are ignoring my questions, here and elsewhere.

You clearly have a fantasy that you're a KC in a Court. Your questions are mainly rhetorical and aimed to obfuscate. As a one note Samba you have a great capacity to annoy, but to no real purpose.

[malumbu]

How did you get to school? It's not a rhetorical question. I'm interested.  I've told you how I and most of my close family got to school.  What is your problem with answering?