Separate Schools?

[SeanMacGabhann]

to carry on the conversation started

here

[SeanMacGabhann]

Interesting points Moos - and I think you did get the point across

Some interesting thoughts on the issue here:

Schools

[MelbourneGr]

My parents sent me to an all boys school to stop ME getting distracted by girls! If anything, it worked so well that it took me some time before I could communicate with other girls again and thus focus on my studies.

I don't think having all Black schools would work. If anything, it will just shelter the students from other cultures and then you get this faith school effect where they only mix with people of similar beliefs / morals etc.

There is a distinct lack of role models outside of sport / Music for the ethnic minority groups. If there are no role models at home or in the family, you'll find boys will do just want they want to do whether it's good or bad.

Some schools are good at countering this - with one to one tutoring, boys can excel girls as they stay focused.

[????]

Seperate schools by race...great idea (not) sounds just like South Africa circa 1960-1990

Seperate schools by gender - females better than males is at an average, straeming would sort out all of the problems disruption, etc associated with this but Streaming far too nasty and competitive and capitalist...Good old lowest common denominator lefties...

When we had a pretty good streaming system (ie Grammar Schools) bright working class kids were suceeding en masse, the decline in working class achievement in schools started not long after the introduction of comprehensive Education...this is a major factor in the reverse of social mobility that has been happening for over 10 years....so stick that in yer 'class war' pipe and smoke it Harriet....

Private education was also on a terminal path downwards until Comprehensives....social enginnering, I spit on it

[Asset]

In re the co-ed debate. I had heard that girls do better in single sex schools for the reasons stated by moos above, but that boys actually do better in co-ed as they have to impress and compete with the girls.

[*Bob*]

Who here went to public school? I'd be interested to know.

I promise not to use it against you in future. Honest.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I barely went to school at all - a Christian Brothers state school in Ireland until aged 16 - I have worked since then

[*Bob*]

I went to a Grammar school - and am thankful for it.

[david_carnell]

All-boys grammar school from 11-18.

Due to this I have been rendered inept when dealing with women. I wouldn't recommend it.

[ratty]

The thing about all black schools is the other side of the coin - i.e the all white schools that will be a naturally occurring by product.

Then, the schools will fight each other cos that's what schools do.

Will this lead to a race riot?

The whole concept scares the b'jesus outta me tbh!

BTW I think this country is fooked!

[James]

I went to a grammar and hated it. Here's my idea:

Genuine comprehensivisation. Comprehensives have a bad name because:

1) Their introduction happened to coincide with 'modern' teaching methods (less emphasis on spelling and grammar, relaxed discipline etc) which have since been discredited

2) The market system we have creates sink schools because everyone who can afford it moves to a pash area with good comps, gets their kids into a selective school or goes private

Therefore I propose the following:

Abolition of all selective, private and faith schools. Every local authority tests all its kids at the end of year 6 and allocates them to ensure all its schools have an intake of mixed ability.

Result: no more sink schools. No more privileged elites. Genuine opportunity for all.

I await your responses...

[SeanMacGabhann]

And there was me just about to agree with every line of ratty's post - and then the last line kicked in

Fooked in what way ratty?

I think the whole planet is on the brink of change unknown to us in our lives with the transfer of wealth and power eastwards. Arguably this country's history, diversity and size will all be assets in this change

[Tony.London Suburbs]

I went to a Grammar school - and am thankful for it.

As I was near the top in most Subjects in Primary School allow me to Co-Sign with "Bob"..

Teachers who wore robes to the classroom.Caned if you got under 10/20 in Geography weekly tests when I was 12.

Caned at 12 for only getting 23% in our end-of-year English Literature Exam...as Mary Hopkin would say Those Were The Days..

p.s.Got "found out" somewhat at Grammar School when I was thrust into competition with some of South London's finest...:))

Never could do Ancient-Greek backwards like Peter King,for example,:)) now practising at Kings College...

[MelbourneGr]

Sounds like a good idea. I bet some parents would have serious issues with that though.

I went to a Comprehensive school.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

James Wrote:I went to a Grammar school - ...I await your responses....

Firstly my Grammar School with 350 years proud Academic history became a "Sink School" within 8 years of losing its "Grammar" status..Pretty impressive one feels.(6)

Secondly must have read 500 stories of Guys in the Public eye who were held back at School because the disruptive kids not only did not want to learn as it was boring and uncool but made damn sure no-one else did either!(6)

[*Bob*]

Until the powers that be pull their heads out of their arses and accept that children aren't all the same; that different children are better at different thing - and caters for them accordingly - then parents will (for the most part) act selfishly in the interests of their own children, to whatever extent they are able.

And I don't blame them. I'll be doing the same.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

This is Harriet Harman,Daughter of an Aristocrat?

Harriet read the Blacknet Forum(a fair cross-section of their Community) and read what they think of "All-Black" Schools!

[ratty]

Hello,

I just feel that this country is going ever steadily down the pan. It's a theme that has been debated may times on here before and I do not want to get into it again, but it just feels that the safe, secure UK of my childhood no longer exists! Maybe it's just because someone threatened to shoot me in Brockley last week for driving in front of them!

[Cassius]

I went to a Grammar and loved it - however if I hated it I wouldn't want Grammars banned just because of my bad experience.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

ratty Wrote:

Hello, I just feel that this country is going ever

steadily down the pan. Maybe it's just because someone threatened to

shoot me in Brockley last week for driving in front of them!

You are amongst friends here so come clean ratty..DID you drive in front of him?(6)(6)

[Asset]

I would feel pissed off if my kids were very good at a subject but were held back because others in the class couldn't keep up. Likewise if they were rubbish at something I wouldn't want them in a class full of people sniggering because they were behind everyone else.

In that sense I think a bit of streaming is a good thing - then everyone gets taught and learns at the level and speed of their abilities.

Some people are great at languages and crap at maths and vice versa, or some people are gifted artists but rubbish academically. It can't be a case of a homogenised education system.

[Keef]

Abolition of all selective, private and faith schools. Every local authority tests all its kids at the end of year 6 and allocates them to ensure all its schools have an intake of mixed ability.

Result: no more sink schools. No more privileged elites. Genuine opportunity for all.

Sounds pretty good to me. Another result would be that house prices in areas such as East Dulwich wouldn't be stupidly inflated as a result of parents buying in catchment areas! (well actually, it wouldn't make much difference in Dulwich, because it's all primary schools, but you get the drift).

[Keef]

For the record, I went to all boys (with sister school down the road), former grammar school that became one of the "City Technology Colleges" created by the tories. 6th form was mixed.

Having said all that, I believe it's totally mixed now.

Anyway, we were streamed in to 4 sets, 2 "higher", 2 "lower". The 2 higher sets were also different. One was made up of the kids expected to do better at maths and science type subjects, whilst the other (my set) was more English and arty subjects.

I think streaming can be good. I was never great at maths (meaning I found it horrifically boring and couldn't be arsed), so was put in the intermediate set for GCSE level. This is a good thing, as I would have been out of my depth at higher level. Likewise, I was better at English, and was put in the higher group for that.

Aaaanyway, back to the seperate schools. If this were to go ahead, surely it wouldn't be long before chinese people wanted chinese schools, and indian people wanted indian schools and so on... I just can't believe that anyone has come up with this idea, it's rubbish!

There are things that need addressing, and stats show that black boys are doing least well at school, but if they are receiving the same education as the kids doing better, surely this suggests that the schooling isn't really the problem!

[Marmora Man]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Abolition of all selective, private and faith

> schools. Every local authority tests all its kids

> at the end of year 6 and allocates them to ensure

> all its schools have an intake of mixed ability.

>

> Result: no more sink schools. No more privileged

> elites. Genuine opportunity for all.

>

> Sounds pretty good to me. Another result would be

> that house prices in areas such as East Dulwich

> wouldn't be stupidly inflated as a result of

> parents buying in catchment areas! (well actually,

> it wouldn't make much difference in Dulwich,

> because it's all primary schools, but you get the

> drift).

But in other areas we encourage elitism - sports for example. Hot housing athletes leads to gold medals, if we left athletic selection to the local authority and ensured every sports club had a representative mix of sporting ability the potential stars would never get the assistance and encoiuragement they need. Exactly the same for children and learning.

I went to a grammar school. There I was an average student and never destined for Oxbridge - but some were real academic stars and were able to get on further and faster because they were in an academic environment with high calibre teachers that could encourage and lead them. High calibre teachers are attracted to the idea of nurturing the next generation of thinkers and academics. Their pupils abilities were then used to the benefit of the country - as successful academics, doctors and other professionals. If they had all been shared out among the 12 or so other schools there would not have been a concentration of high quality teachers to assist them and many many distractions in schools where academic earning as not valued.

The destruction of the grammar school system has done more to stultify social mobility than anything else in the last 50 years.

Edit: I think the idea of separate "black" schools is illogical - particlarly as Jasper Lee was also proposing a separate Black orientated curriculum. Such a proposal would only lead to greater not less segregation and separation of ethnic communities - we should all be supporting proper mixing of all in our community.

[Moos]

'potential tars'? Funny typo from an ex-Senior Serviceman, MM!