Ched Evans situation

[Otta]

Edit to add that since posting this, the conviction was overturned, and Evans was found not guilty at retrial. So he is not guilty (not the same as innocent) of rape.

This story is quite a unique one, had a bit of a conversation on FB, and I wonder what people on the EDF make of it?

My take on it is this.

He raped that young woman, no question. But I think in his head a rape is where a girl is dragged down an ally and raped violently. I suspect the idea of that would repulse him and that is why he just can't accept that he has raped someone, because in his mind what he did was not a rape. Those close to him are not really doing him any favours by continuing to support his claims of innocense and would do him a bigger service by convincing him to face up to his crime.

Should he be allowed to return to football? There is no law to say he shouldn't, but there are several good reasons that he shouldn't. It's okay to say "an electrician would be able to return to work and earn a living". Replace "electrician" with "teacher / doctor / social worker" and that argument crumbles.

The aspect of this story that has me feeling a bit uncomfortable is the public petitioning that is going on (and having an effect). It should not be for the public to decide this man's fate, and all the hype is actually discolouring the water a bit too.

Discuss

[Mick Mac]

As regards the public - Everyone has the right to act accordingly and as customers of the relevant football clubs to make their feelings clear by signing a petition/withdrawing their support etc.

[jacks09]

Interestingly we discussed this at work. After quite a heated discussion the general consensus was that if he showed remorse he should be allowed back to work - as a footballer.

I'm so wary of proclaiming anyone guilty or innocent without a detailed understanding of the case. but the info we have at the moment is that he IS guilty.

Where is the line drawn in terms of what profession is acceptable to go back to? Who draws that line?

Also, he is still "on licence" and as such serving his sentence. What happens at the end of this period if he is still remorseless....should he be allowed back to work as a footballer, he's served his time, right?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30697264

What do we all do if the case review proves innocence? Have you read the website his supporters have set up?

I want to make it clear my only opinion on guilt or innocence is that current facts show him as guilty. In either case he was bloody stupid and ignorant to put himself in that position.

[Ladygooner]

I suspect Clubs are more wary of losing their sponsors than their fans if they sign him.

[david_carnell]

Otta - I agree with you that it is both interesting (in an unfortunately bleak way) and controversial.

I think your observation of Evans is probably roughly accurate although attempting to second guess a sexual criminal's motives and beliefs is a sticky wicket. He was convicted of a crime. End of.

And rape is rape no matter whether it is in a hotel room invovling drink and drugs or in a dark alley involving violence. Next time he's unconscious through drink, rape him and try telling him he just hadn't said "no" so you thought it was ok. Then see if he changes his mind....

He has yet to show remorse, which I think is an ongoing problem. A full scale admission of guilt and apology would probably go a long way to help with any redemption.

Nevertheless, he's served a sentence deemed suitable for the offence (whether you agree with it or not is moot) and while possessing a criminal record is entitled to now try and become a functioning member of society again. I guess I'm uncomfortable with him becoming a footballer again for a couple of reasons:

1) Like it or not, professional footballers are role models and this is a terrible example to set young, impressionable men who follow the game. Evans' lack of remorse reinforces this and suggests that beyond a relatively short custodial sentence there are no long lasting consequences for committing such a crime. Unfortunately his victim will have to live with it her entire life. If he were deprived of his first choice profession, it's not much of a price to pay really is it?

2) Football clubs are, or should be, representative of their communities. I know this has been eroded in the modern era to an extent but in many places they are still the heartbeat of a town. Employing a character like Evans suggests a a disrespect to a vast swathe of that community - namely women. A club wishing to act responsibly, no matter the footballing benefits, should have nothing to do with him.

If he had qualified in many other professions, a similar conviction would also bar him from returning to them - in this instance I think football should be similar to that.

[El Pibe]

as long as popular anger doesn't really mean 17 tweets with a hashtag quoted by newspapers, then, as MM says, people are free to make choices.

As you say, if he'd stood up, said, i was a wrongun, and done outreach work to teach youngsters about sexual propriety he'd have been just another in a long line of footballers who abused their status, got done and learnt from their mistakes (hopefully).

I guess a lot of it comes from his lack of remorse or at the very least humility.

[El Pibe]

ooh lots of x posting!

[StraferJack]

If he called on his supporters to stop hounding the poor woman from house to house then he could, without changing his plea of innocence, be seen to do a good thing and help his own rehabilitation at the same time

As for rape - he may not have dragged someone down an alley, but he received a text from a mate saying "he had a bird" and thought it was ok to just go along to the hotel room? Nice

I think given the ongoing revelations from a previous era of light-entertainment, people are less happy to tolerate behaviour like this towards young people.

[georgia]

Good post dc

[Otta]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As regards the public - Everyone has the right to

> act accordingly and as customers of the relevant

> football clubs to make their feelings clear by

> signing a petition/withdrawing their support etc.

I agree with this, and respected the stand Jessica Ennis took at Sheffield.

Where I am uncomfortable is when bloggers that have absolutely nothing to do with any football clubs are petitioning against him and seem to want to make bloody sure he can't play anywhere.

I'm not saying he should play anywhere, but who are these people to make that call.

[Otta]

Can I just make this VERY VERY clear. I am not saying that what he did was any less of a rape than dragging a girl down am ally. I was simply saying that I suspect (and could be wrong) that in HIS mind they are different.

[Otta]

And until that changes he'll never be able to admit that he's raped someone.

I believe that he genuinely thinks he's innocent and probably feels that he is the wronged party.

[david_carnell]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Can I just make this VERY VERY clear. I am not

> saying that what he did was any less of a rape

> than dragging a girl down am ally. I was simply

> saying that I suspect (and could be wrong) that in

> HIS mind they are different.

Sorry, yes, I didn't mean to imply that. Apologies if that's how it came across.

[StraferJack]

"I believe that he genuinely thinks he's innocent and probably feels that he is the wronged party."

My point is even if that is the case, he can't look at what is happening to the girl and support that - he has to tell that website to back off

[Otta]

Didn't know about any website, but assuming it's some hate campaign against his victim?

And yes, whether he thinks he's wronged or not, he or someone around him should at least see that making a statement asking people to back off would at very least be good PR even if he is too morally spastic to really want them to back off.

[StraferJack]

She has had to move 5 times apparently

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jan/05/ched-evans-victim-website

This is the website in question

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http://chedevans.com/judge-for-yourself&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=oS6tVLarI4Xxatq5gvAD&ved=0CCcQFjAE&sig2=v49j2Ut6L0jg73wLFs9pJQ&usg=AFQjCNF9dLchDLtNr76Jneb9J6-ujwQIsw

[Mick Mac]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mick Mac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > As regards the public - Everyone has the right

> to

> > act accordingly and as customers of the

> relevant

> > football clubs to make their feelings clear by

> > signing a petition/withdrawing their support

> etc.

>

>

> I agree with this, and respected the stand Jessica

> Ennis took at Sheffield.

>

> Where I am uncomfortable is when bloggers that

> have absolutely nothing to do with any football

> clubs are petitioning against him and seem to want

> to make bloody sure he can't play anywhere.

>

> I'm not saying he should play anywhere, but who

> are these people to make that call.

Bloggers are modern media Otta for good or for bad.

Football is not social work or teaching - but its different from a mainstream job in that children hero worship players - some people believe strongly that as such he shouldn't play again.

It has similarities to the Bill Cosby debate - the court of public opinion is a strong one and the more open social media is, the stronger it becomes.

One blogger on his own doesn't make a decision but a groundswell of opinion is hard to ignore.

[Robert Poste's Child]

To me it's not just the act and the lack of responsibility or remorse, it's that they amount to a fundamental flaw in his integrity. Until that's resolved, any football club that takes him on is condoning that, and given the influence footballers have on young people I would expect many to understand it to mean that an action is only wrong if you admit it's wrong.

To put it another way, until he acknowledges that what he did was wrong and tries in some way to make amends to the victim (as a minimum calling off the trolls), I wouldn't employ him as I'd be concerned that lack of integrity will play out in other ways.

Wish his girlfriend would dump him, though.

[Otta]

She might when it becomes clear he'll never be on a footballer's salary again ;-)

[Jeremy]

I don't see that footballers are so different from other sportspeople, actors, musicians, etc in terms of the "role model" status. Across all forms of entertainment you can find role models (past and present) who have done disgraceful things.

I think it begs the wider question of whether certain offenders (e.g. serious assault, sexual abuse, etc) should even be legally allowed to work in sports and entertainment at all. My personal feeling is that they shouldn't... but while I can obviously understand a sponsor threatening withdrawal, it seems inappropriate for the signing to become a commercial decision.

[red devil]

Looks like he's signing for Oldham tomorrow...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30681333

[Otta]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30697264

[Robert Poste's Child]

I find it interesting that culturally a lot of people don't seem to feel disgrace any more. That may be a good thing when you think how fear of it was often used to keep victims quiet, but I'm old enough to feel surprised that someone convicted of a violent crime feels a sense of entitlement to walk straight back into the successful lifestyle he enjoyed before he did it, almost as though nothing has happened, or it's just a minor setback.

[Otta]

But the point is that he is claiming he's innocent. His whole thing is defiance, hold your head high because you've done nothing wrong. You can't feel disgrace if you believe you're the wronged party.

[StraferJack]

If I was ever accused of doing something like this, I think I would be able to find away to protest my innocence whilst also trying to make sure that nobody else was hounded from their home five times

Basically he is coming across as not just a convicted rapist, but also as a prize tool with zero respect for women anyway. Even if innocent of rape, he cheats on his girlfriend, goes to a hotel where some mate says "he has a bird" and then when that "bird" is victimised and hounded he won't even speak out in her defence

If a court was to clear his name (and not on some technicality but genuinely clear his name) I would still want him nowhere near me, my family or my football club