Smart phones (+chargers) to refugees

[Mfichardt]

I have no connection to this charity but thought this is such a good idea as we have 2 old phones lying around? and other people can use it.

http://www.refugeephones.co.uk

Drop off point is in Soho. I am in the area twice a week so can take it in if anyone wants to drop it off at my place (East Dulwich).

Marike

[Sue]

Thanks for that link. I have shared it on Facebook.

ETA: This scheme is running in partnership with CalAid.

Please don't let the following usual ED forum squabbling put you off donating - please read the Refugee Phones website for yourself.

[DulwichFox]

This is a CRAZY idea..

Handing over smartphones / SIM cards (which could still contain personal data)

to people who could potentially steal your I.D. in an attempt to attain UK residency.

Your phone could be protected but your SIM could be used in any other phone if you have not password

protected it. Most people don't do that.

Passwords.. bank details.. your contacts phone numbers.. emails..

If the Police can retrieve this DATA from seized phones, so can criminals..

DulwichFox

[Sue]

I believe the website advises you what to do before giving away your phone ...

[Loz]

I'm with DF - there is no way I'd hand over a SIM. Apart from personal info, you can't guarantee your name isn't still associated with the account connected to that SIM. Also, if you've transferred the number (as most people do) the SIM is useless anyway.

Not sure why they'd want them, anyway - I'd be surprised if the phone companies wouldn't hand over a bunch of PAYG SIMs if they asked and were going to top them up.

[Sue]

If you look at the website, it says to email them for more information if you want to donate SIMs. I imagine they have thought of your points ....

I had assumed they meant new SIMs, I must say, but if you're worried then don't give them your old one .... nobody's twisting your arm here!

If you think there's a load of data on your SIM which could be accessed, what are you going to do if someone steals it now? Surely you should have dealt with that possibility already?

There is a point at which people become so fearful that they don't use online banking, online purchasing, Facebook, God knows what else in case somebody steals their identity or their cash.

ETA: Have any of you actually looked to see what the website says???

[Loz]

Sue Wrote:

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> If you think there's a load of data on your SIM which could be accessed, what are you going to do

> if someone steals it now? Surely you should have dealt with that possibility already?

I have indeed - my SIM is passcoded. I'd have to unpasscode it to give it away.

[LadyNorwood]

Why specifically smartphones?

[Jeremy]

LadyNorwood Wrote:

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> Why specifically smartphones?

If you follow the link:

"It?s a basic tool that means they can make a much needed call home. Access maps to find out where they are. Find information about what to do next, and what's going on in the world."

[KalamityKel]

Really? Like REALLY?!!

hmmm *shuts up*

[LondonMix]

Did you read the link (this is to you as well DF). They aren't asking individuals for their SIMs in general, just the smart phones. They are asking companies and people working in the industry for sims that are pay as you go without roaming fees in Calais that the charity will then top up with donations.

Let's be careful before disparaging the work of a charity. I would strongly suggest that anyone who incorrectly characterized the nature of the donations requested, delete those comments as most people might not read through the entire thread to see the correct information.

Loz Wrote:

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> I'm with DF - there is no way I'd hand over a SIM.

> Apart from personal info, you can't guarantee your

> name isn't still associated with the account

> connected to that SIM. Also, if you've

> transferred the number (as most people do) the SIM

> is useless anyway.

>

> Not sure why they'd want them, anyway - I'd be

> surprised if the phone companies wouldn't hand

> over a bunch of PAYG SIMs if they asked and were

> going to top them up.

[DulwichFox]

LondonMix

You seem to have very little understanding of the risks of passing on your smartphone in this way.

I'm not disparaging the work of a charity but people wishing to 'Donate' their devices need to be aware

of the steps they need to take before doing so..

Smartphones and tablets that you no longer need should be disposed of with great care. The data on your device can easily be accessed whether you sell, scrap, give away or donate it, and even ?deleted? data can be retrieved with relative ease by criminals.

Get started... ? Thoroughly remove all data from your device before disposing of it.

See also...

Safe Computer Disposal

How to dispose of computer hardware safely.

Privacy

Maintain privacy and avoid identity theft or fraud.

In addition, disposing of smartphones and tablets responsibly will ensure the minimum environmental impact and ensure that you are not breaking the law.

The Risks

? The personal information stored in files on your device ? including contacts, photos, videos and email attachments ? can be accessed and used for criminal activity.

? Any passwords stored on your device could give access to secure websites holding your personal and financial information.

? Any browsing history can be accessed.

? emails stored on your device can be accessed.

? Disposing of your device without having retrieved the information you may need in the future may cause inconvenience or disruption.

Safe Disposal

? Ensure all data is copied from your device by syncing it with your computer - or backing it up to the cloud - then restoring it to factory settings.

? With Android phones, enable encryption on your device before applying the factory reset. Apple iPhones already feature hardware encryption by default - a feature that cannot be user-disabled. To be completely sure that your data is deleted, however, download and use a reputable data deletion tool.

? If the device is at the end of its life and you do not intend to sell it or give it away, take it to a proper disposal facility, which will ensure that is dismantled and the components recycled correctly and responsibly.

https://www.getsafeonline.org/smartphones-tablets/safe-disposal/

A generous gesture could place you in danger of ID Fraud.

Dulwichfox

[LondonMix]

Dulwich Fox-- read your post. Your very long diatribe was against the very specific risks of handing over your sim card, which is not what is being asked by the charity.

Moreover, on the very first page of the website, the charity instructs you to erase your phone before handing it in unlocked. Unless you are suggesting that everyone needs to keep every phone they've ever owned locked up in their house, this is simply the normal steps one takes when disposing of any device (laptop, phone, etc).

There was no reason to act like the charity was instructing people to act recklessly. Your comments were misleading and potentially have put people off from contributing to a charity helping refugees! Have some decency, erase your misleading first post and just let it go.

[DulwichFox]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> Moreover, on the very first page of the website,

> the charity instructs you to erase your phone

> before handing it in unlocked.

Erasing data does NOT delete it.. same as on your PC. It strips the Header off the files in a file table.

The info is all still there until overwritten. It will also still be present in iCloud.

I worked in telecoms and I.T. as a Systems Admin. Security Officer.

If anyone wants to Donate.. Please do so..

I will make no further comment on the subject.

DulwichFox

[LondonMix]

You are unbelievable. Do you know what someone actually trying to help would do. The first post would say:

"This is a great idea and while the charity does instruct people to erase their data, I'm providing some more details on the best way to do this to those interested participating as I worked in IT for a number of years..."

Instead you, without reading the website, suggest the charity are asking people to give over their SIM cards to refugees exposing themselves to identity fraud.

I understand the game you are trying to play with me as I've seen you do it a thousand times on the forum. I have to say though, messing with the reputation of a charity because you won't admit you made a mistake is low. I have zero respect for someone who could act in such a reckless, selfish way.

I'd encourage the OP to edit his first post with the full details of what the charity is instructing and requesting so that others aren't deterred by the erroneous information that followed from Dulwich Fox which obviously could frighten some from helping people in need.

[Otta]

What LN said.

[Jeremy]

I think Fox went a bit overboard, but it is worth pointing out that data is still recoverable after a simple factory reset. You need to make sure you do it properly.

[LondonMix]

I agree but that wasn't the point that he was making initially. Being aware of that is sensible regardless of if you are donating to a charity or not. Its just information everyone should know who owns a smartphone / laptop / tablet etc. I'm not tech savvy and I know that as I've had to dispose of old and broken electronics in the past.

Jeremy Wrote:

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> I think Fox went a bit overboard, but it is worth

> pointing out that data is still recoverable after

> a simple factory reset. You need to make sure you

> do it properly.

[miga]

DF might have used language that's a bit OTT, but the information on how to prepare your phone and/or SIM on that web site is pretty scant, so a worthwhile point to consider for anyone contemplating donation.

[TheArtfulDogger]

LadyNorwood Wrote:

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> Why specifically smartphones?

Could it be that they can then Look up websites to find out whe the next slow train to England is, or best places to wait for a slow lorry, or car sharing sites for rides to Blighty....

Of cause I could just be a synical old dog

[Loz]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> Did you read the link (this is to you as well DF). They aren't asking individuals for their SIMs in

> general, just the smart phones. They are asking companies and people working in the industry for

> sims that are pay as you go without roaming fees in Calais that the charity will then top up with

> donations.

To be fair, the only time this is mentioned on the link they say "we want to collect as many smartphones, chargers and SIMs from companies, brands and individuals in the industry and beyond." They do not, as far as I can see, separate the requests between smartphones and SIMs as you claim. If they meant that, it's really not very clear on the website.

> Let's be careful before disparaging the work of a charity.

I don't believe that I did. I just agreed with DF that handing over a used SIM is really not a good idea. I'm not sure how you managed to read that as "disparaging the work of a charity".

[LondonMix]

loz, yes they dp separate out the requests. When you go down to How You Can Help, they are very specific. You just have to scroll down on the same page.

Miga- the post I have asked DF to delete didn't contain any information about how to protect yourself and erase your phone. His first post just said that it was crazy to help this charity because by donating your SIM card you were leaving yourself exposed to identity theft. I wholeheartedly agree posting information on the best way to wipe one's phone would be helpful and have said so already up in my other posts...

And my issue is by people not bothering to read what the charity was actually asking for before posting false characterizations of the request, you put other people off from looking into it. It looks 'dangerous, crazy etc' when its nothing of the sort.

[LondonMix]

Sometimes I think people forget that we aren't all chatting to each other in the pup. Lots of people will read this who aren't commenting and it will also come up in google searches on the charity now. All I'm saying is we need to be responsible the way we discuss things that can have a impact on real people and real organizations, particularly those that are designed to help people.

[Loz]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> loz, yes they dp separate out the requests. When you go down to How You Can Help, they are very

> specific. You just have to scroll down on the same page.

But they do not separate them into industry and non-industry requests, as you are claiming.

And you still haven't explained how I 'disparaged a charity'.

[LondonMix]

You disparage them by agreeing with someone who has characterized the idea behind the charity as CRAZY in caps as Dulwich fox did.

To quote from the website:

"We're also looking to get donations of SIM cards that don't charge for roaming in the Calais region - for example pay as you go SIM's from Lebara or 3.

CalAid will top up the cards with donations.

If you want to donate SIMs drop us an email and we'll give you more information."

What about any of that request warranted any agreement with DF's first post on the charity as concerns SIMs? Nothing about what they are asking is "CRAZY" and nothing about how they are asking people to donate poses any greater risk of identity theft than when one disposes of an electronics good in general.

And of course, explaining the best way to erase information (as the charity requested everyone does) is a great idea, but that only happened today by FOX when I challenged him on misreading the point on SIMS. It has nothing to do with the post I asked him / her to delete.