Earl Aelfheah

Oh that old tactic. Repeatedly ducking the question and then pretending you don’t you don’t understand 🙄

This isn't the argument being made by @Rockets though; He'd not suggested that pedal assist e-bikes and illegal mopeds should be treated the same. He has argued that illegal mopeds and push bikes should be treated the same. He has ducked the question of what that means for regulation (clearly we know what it would mean, which is why he's walking the argument right up to the line and then refusing to take it the extra millimetre to it's logical conclusion).

I've answered that question already. The specific example you gave, of a throttle driven bike able to travel at 70mph, is not a bicycle (not my opinion, but a legal fact). And yet it's notable that you still haven't answered. You've repeatedly claimed that a motorbike and a bicycle should be placed in the same vehicle class. The corollary of that argument is that they should be regulated in the same way; which would mean all bicycles would have to be registered and taxed, you would require a valid driving licence to ride one, would have to wear a motorcycle helmet that meets British safety standards and insure your bicycle. If this isn't your argument, then please do elaborate.

Again you duck the question. You say that bicycles and motorbikes are the same. So I assume you're arguing that they should be regulated in the same way?

Exactly. A bike with an electric motor and a throttle that can travel at 70mph is very clearly classed as a moped or motorcycle. Riding an electric bike: the rules - GOV.UK The fact that the motor is electric makes no difference. So @Rockets is arguing that bicycles should be treated the same as motorbikes.

I wasn't aiming that at you - I'm aware that's not what you were saying. I was clarifying Rockets position. He's confirmed that he considers a e-moped capable of doing 70mph to be the same as a push bike (bizarrely) Obviously I don't agree, and neither does the law. Because it's clearly ridiculous. But you didn't answer the second part of my question. Are you're suggesting that a push bike should be regulated in the same way as a moped / motorbike capable of travelling at 70 mph?

It doesn't 'walk like a duck' though does it. A push bike doesn't have a throttle and cannot travel at 70mph powered by a motor. Are you're seriously suggesting that a push bike is the same as a electric moped capable of travelling at 70 mph, and that they should be regulated in the same way? So for bicycles to have the same regulations applied as motorbikes?

A vehicle has hit an object on the pavement. A heavy / high powered vehicle, that shouldn’t be on the pavement. It’s applied enough force to pull up a concrete block The block hasn’t subsided and no one seriously believes that it has. None of which we shouldn’t be concerned about Well that’s ok then. 🙄 The rush of those ‘concerned’ by dangerous driving, to justify / minimise a high powered vehicle being on the pavement, or (ridiculously) insinuating a cyclist or pedestrian might be to ‘blame’, is just beyond ridiculous.

😆 Are you actually a made up character / parody account?

I accept that it's an assumption, but a fairly water tight one no? I mean that block has almost certainly been damaged by a motor vehicle that had crossed on to the pavement.

A lot of strawman stuff here. Regardless of the circumstances, it would have taken a lot of force to move that concrete post. This kind of regular damage to property and the public realm isn't great. For one thing, it costs taxpayers a lot of money. But also, a high powered vehicle, applying massive force to a concrete block that's located on a pavement, is dangerous under almost any circumstances. On a different (but related) topic... This report, published last year, makes fairly grim reading. Year on year increases in hit and runs in London. Over 300 in Southwark alone. Driving off after hitting someone is (as the title suggests) an escalating crisis Hit and run the escalating crisis on London roads - January 2024 Caroline Russell Report.pdf

It doesn't 'walk like a duck' though does it. A push bike doesn't have a throttle and cannot travel at 70mph powered by a motor.

It's you that is trying to conflate a 70mph e-moped with a push bike. You'd be much better off calling for regulation of those mod kits (as I already did above), and stricter enforcement of existing laws to ensure vehicles are road legal. I'm not sure how bringing in additional laws for push bikes has any impact on illegal e-mopeds (in fact I do, it has none). But clearly not working....which leads us back to my point on the need for tighter legislation, increased policing or limitations of cycle use. This is so weird. I've pointed out that the laws you are calling for already exist in the scenario you describe, they're just not enforced, and you agree, then call for tighter legislation. It's a problem of enforcement, extra laws on top of ones which are already unenforced achieves nothing. And then you call for 'limitations of cycle use'... Which I think really gets to the nub of what you want.

Push bikes, e-bikes and e-mopeds are categorised and regulated differently yes. Lime bikes are licensed, insured, have a number plates, and in the scenarios you describe, are breaking existing laws. So I'm not sure whether extra laws would really make a difference. Seems to be an issue of enforcement. It is an anecdote. Lime bikes are different from push bikes in the scenarios that you describe, because your proposed fix - the additional regulations you're calling for - already apply to them. Which is kind of relevant and more than a little ironic. I find it strange (although not really, fully understanding your agenda) how you think that an illegal electric moped (the type used extensively by delivery companies) is the same as a push bike?

I am not a 'highly motivated self starter' as people like to say in job interviews. I need the office to ensure I actually focus / get some work done. Otherwise I spend too much time arguing with Rockets on the forum 😉

We do need better enforcement. Especially around commercial e-bikes and illegal e scooters / mopeds. …and regularly speeding and distracted motorists for that matter.

Your anecdote above seems to involve primarily Lime bikes, and delivery scooters. The former are licensed and insured, have a number plate, and in the scenarios your describe are breaking existing laws. The latter are probably illegal - most of the electric scooters used for deliveries are, and yet companies like Uber Eats etc, seem to turn a blind eye. So how are calls for new laws relevant, or helpful? What you're describing is an issue of enforcement. In both cases, the police are already empowered to do something about the situations you describe, they just fail to do so very effectively.

Thames water digging up the same bit of road near junction of Lordship Lane and Heber for (I think) the third time?! I don’t get why they can’t fix it once.

People often speed on this road and often fail to stop at the zebra crossing. Better enforcement needed

Thanks, look forward to seeing the new place. Think it’s just called kix now

There is a new 'sauna and arts social club' opened up in Arch 842, next to Bronzewood Metal Works off Consort Road Sauna Social Club | Sauna and Arts | Peckham, London, UK Also, probably not new, but new to me Banook Bagels | South London Bagel - Order Online

Also the houses south of Peckham Rye (Mamora, Therapia etc), have big gardens. SE22 is a lovely area and very safe.

Agree, it's a really nice space and already very popular. Will really come into it's own come the summer.

Nope. I want speed limits to be enforced to the point where 85% of people in high powered vehicles aren’t ignoring them. Amazing that you (appear) to think this unreasonable in relation to cars, but are desperate to tackle it in relation to bicycles. There are far fewer people who cycle, it’s a tiny proportion of them who can maintain more than 20 for any distance, and the average bicycle weighs about 10kg, not 2 tons. So it’s a really weird way to rank your priorities. Yup. Although it’s not really just weight, it’s also bonnet height (almost more important), and power. No. I don’t see the need for ever bigger, heavier, and higher fronted vehicles in town. The car bloat should be discouraged imo for numerous reasons, just one of which is safety (an important one). Yes. And the point stands. I mean E-bikes (which includes most cargo bikes), are clearly different to a standard bicycle. But even at 35 or even 65 kg, it’s quite different to over 2,000kg. So again, to constantly spotlight the former, whilst deflecting from the latter feels at best ‘misguided’. Yet we now have three threads focussed on speed limits for bicycles, including this one, that was meant to be about motor vehicles, but has also been redirected. Again, it’s a quick, whispered acknowledgement there are other (much bigger) issues, followed by more weapons grade deflection. And the ‘our side of the fence’ comment is so, so revealing.

DfT stats suggest 85% of motor vehicles drive faster than the speed limit in 20mph zones. That’s totally unacceptable. If you’re exercised by the tiny number of people on a 10kg pedal powered vehicle travelling at speeds in excess of 20, you should be enraged by the much bigger numbers doing it in a 2 ton, high-powered vehicle. So let’s start there. I would like to see far more enforcement and stiff penalties. I would also like to see some of the technology currently only deployed on electric hire scooters (geo-fencing + speed limiters), applied to cars. I would like strict regulations on the size, bonnet height and weight of non-commercial vehicles and charging regimens which also strongly discourage the arms race for ever bigger, heavier and higher fronted cars (which are so much more dangerous than say a standard saloon. And generally I would question why we need non commercial vehicles upwards of 300 horse power in our cities. I would again use the tax / charging regimes to disincentive use of these dangerous, unnecessary vanity vehicles. …And I would support removing motor vehicles from many more areas. Expanding pedestrian spaces / widening pavements, and creating more segregated cycling spaces to protect people from having to interact with high powered heavy machinery. Lastly, I would encourage greater investment in public transport (although it’s a bit of a cop out to say that, as who wouldn’t)