Earl Aelfheah

Waze says exactly the same …in fact, if you leave now, Waze says it will take 2 minutes. In total. How long do people think it took previously?

Is it? Google maps estimates the time to drive from the junction of townley road and calton avenue, to the junction of where Dulwich village passes the other end of calton avenue, is 3 minutes. In total. So how long do you believe it took before the changes? You think it took less than 1 minute? I think people have lost all perspective.

@Rockets you dodged the question. If one opposes every change, regardless of what it is, do you think it could just amount to nimbyism?

Not going over this again. You are obsessed. It was half a decade ago - drive round, it's a 2 minute diversion. Is there a single change that the council or tfl have implemented that you haven't objected to in say the last 10 or 15 years?

I don't have anything to say about them, no. Like I said, these matters were settled years ago. My point is simply that one should not assume that because we have heard repeatedly from a handful of noisy obsessives, (who object to all and any change), over many years, that it represents anything close to a settled, or majority view. Claims that the council are implementing schemes that no one wants, or is 'fascistic', should be treated with extreme scepticism (or justly, derision). As I said, the council who have made these apparently 'unpopular' decisions have usually been returned to office with bigger majorities.

On Dulwich LTN - Dulwich Review Consultation Report (August 2021) 55 per cent supported the aims set out in its ‘Streets for People’ initiative. Sydenham Hill - Southwark consulted on the proposals in February and March 2020. Each of the measures was supported by the majority of those who responded.

These works do appear to take a long time and have extended periods of inactivity. That said, I don't think we can say why there are periods of inactivity - it may well be that things needs to settle / set, or whatever, and that they move people onto other works whilst that's happening. Who knows? I can't imagine it's in anyone's interests to extend these things out any longer than necessary.

This is ridiculous. Is it fascist to 'coerce' people out of cycling because they feel it's too dangerous? Why do you think that giving 80% of public space over to cars isn't a choice, (just the natural order), but say, building a segregated bike lane for example, is a choice (and is fascist)? You think the council have stopped you driving? What are you talking about? Literally no one has said that 'avoiding active travel' is, or should be illegal. To suggest that driving a private car doesn't effect anyone else though is demonstrably untrue. All of our choices effect others people and the council, as the ones who have responsibility for allocating and maintaining public space, have to consider everyone and their competing demands. The mentality of the 'war on motorists' brigade is incredible. In what sense could anyone seriously claim that the (minority) of private car owners in Southwark aren't being catered to adequately - aren't allocated enough space, or given enough infrastructure? 🤪 The fact that a small change to road layout at the junction of Calton avenue (involving a 2 minute diversion for private cars) is still being regularly ranted about half a decade on, really does tell you all you need to know. Cries of fascism, are just entitled nonsense.

And there is the rub. The fact is that there was majority support recorded for both schemes during consultation, and councillors have successfully stood for re-election since they were implemented, but years on, and following a non stop stream of misinformation, and general 'noise' its easy for people to lose sight of some of the basic facts.

Well, many people vote in local elections. Not everyone bothers to respond to every consultation exercise, or continues to be extremely vocal about schemes long after they've been implemented. The council have been clear about their policies around active travel, their intention to increase the number of people walking and cycling, and to reduce reliance on private motor vehicles. They've implemented schemes in line with these policies and they've been repeatedly voted back in. So when I say 'silent majority', what I mean is, the majority of people who aren't obsessed and still vocal about individual schemes years after they've been established. It's easy to get the impression (from this forum for example) that there are huge numbers of people who would like to see Dulwich square ripped up and replaced with a queue of idling cars, or who are furious about changes made to Sydenham Hill; But I guarantee this is not the case (both had support during consultation btw, but most people don't continue to think about them years later).

People would also have moaned had they put in other crossings nearby. It's the same people who object to every single change to the public realm, regardless of what it is.

Although that raises another good improvement that could be made locally - secure bike parking at Brixton tube. Never understood why it wasn't included as part of the plans when they did the station up several years ago. Finsbury Park at the other end of the Victoria line has a great facility.

I'm not sure they are necessarily going against the wishes of local residents (at least not the silent majority). There are often very noisy objections to attempts to rebalance the use of public space (to loosen the stranglehold of private cars dominating almost everywhere), but the majority of the Borough's residents do not have access to a car. There is a culture amongst many that assumes giving over say 80%+ of all public space to cars is the natural order, and not a choice, just as much as it is to widen pavements, create nicer pedestrian areas, or create space for people using a bicycle. I don't believe they spend very much on these schemes in terms of the total budget. Often they're self funding, and / or come with additional funding from either central government or the London authority. Can't find any evidence that they do you zero based budgeting though: https://www.southwark.gov.uk/about-council/how-council-works/budgets-and-spending

Fair enough. At least you've tried. I'm surprised they haven't responded. Usually, they come back pretty quickly.

You can say “I can’t find something on the website, it’s a conspiracy”, or you can email and ask them to provide the info you’re after. I know which is more constructive. But I guess it comes down to what you actually want to achieve. Claiming information doesn’t exist, or is being deliberately withheld without making any effort to look, or ask te right people is a repeated pattern and it’s a bit ridiculous.

Why don’t you email the council?

Have you ever tried emailing the council when you want to find something, rather than posting in here about how it’s some sort of conspiracy? Yes, website are updated, but whenever I have emailed the council asking for info, they’ve always provided it

hmmm... Maybe have a word with the person who took the thread off track, and keeps taking it off track. Again, happy to keep to topic, but not to give people a free pass to say anything they like when they fail to do so.

You may hate it, but that doesn't mean it's universally hated. I would bet that it is a very small minority of people who support the square being removed and replace with a lane of queuing cars. I didn't say that the handful of people who have been absolutely obsessed for more than 5 years about a 2 minute diversion from Townley Road to the Village, will ever accept it. In fact I think I said that the 'hatred' you talk about is bordering on pathological; which suggests the opposite. What I did say is that there is zero chance of it being reversed due to a legal challenge. There are no grounds for a legal challenge.

What are the benefits to pedestrians? Of a zebra crossing and larger pedestrian area? I guess if you flip the question it might help - is it better for pedestrians to have less space and fewer safe crossing points?

I don't make cakes, but happy to eat them if you need someone?

What about the upstairs of the EDT? Is it possible to reserve an area?

Sam99p on Walworth road has been undercutting them for some time now.

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You are living in a fantasy world if you think that the changes to road layout made half a decade ago in the Village are going to somehow be overturned through a legal challenge. By who, and on what grounds exactly? It's pathological.