HeadNun

Nope. I don’t have this wrong. I’ve tried to put my point across respectfully, without resorting to personal, angry insults. And all my colleagues agree that the BBC got this right in its condemnation. All you see is confirmation bias. If you don’t realise that, then you’re part of the problem.

And this is why many people are discouraged from posting on this forum anymore.

You don't know what you're talking about, Sephiroth, and your anger is clouding your judgement. It's all about context. And the BBC mis-represented what Trump said with that edit, plain and simple.

From the BBC: "The conclusion of that deliberation is that we accept that the way the speech was edited did give the impression of a direct call for violent action. The BBC would like to apologise for that error of judgement." What is wrong is editing someone to make him say something they didn't. With respect Sephiroth, this is something I know a bit about and I have encountered, over the last decade, people in programming editing contributors to make them say things they didn't, the end point being to hang them out to dry. It's happening more and more and it's my job to make sure that people on TV are not mis-represented, but shown in their true light so that viewers can make up their own minds. You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and how hard some us fight to keep things impartial. It's also worth mentioning that I have personally lost work because of Trump suing US networks, and that's one of the lesser reasons why I'd like to see him gone. But broadcasters have a moral obligation to tell the truth and that's the hill that most decent professionals in the industry are willing to die on. Otherwise, how can the viewing public trust anything that's beamed into their living rooms?

It doesn't matter what channel it was on, how pernicious the subject is and when it happened. Mis-representing the truth in broadcast is not only morally wrong, it's against the OFCOM code of ethics. Everyone in the industry is trained in how not to do it, most are made to take the BBC's own 'Safeguarding the Trust' course, even if they aren't making BBC programmes. There wasn't much fuss at the time, because no one knew about it. "Unless you hate Britain, hate liberals, hate the BBC, want a divided country, support the most powerful person in the world despite his many failings". What the programme makers personally think or feel should never affect how they tell a story; to do so is deeply unprofessional and a sackable offence. It's the job of the BBC and of all programming to inform viewers of the facts and let them make up their own minds. Even in campaigning documentaries.

And don't forget 'racist', though that was deleted and time was served.

Yes, these are all good points. I agree with you, that division has led us down dangerous paths in the past. And I deplore any kind of racism (as I think you probably know). But I feel that a lot of the current wave of xenophobia we're witnessing is actually more about a general malaise and discontent. I know non-white people around here who are surprisingly vocal about immigrants - legal or otherwise. I think this feeling transcends skin colour for a lot of people and isn't as simple as, say, the Jew hatred of the 1930s or the Irish and Black racism that we saw laterally. I think people feel ignored and looked down upon. What you don't realise, Sephiroth, is that I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying. I just think that looking down on people because of their voting history and opinions is self-defeating. And that's where Labour's getting it wrong and Reform is reaping the rewards.

I don't have a beef with you. But I do have a beef with people who feel that a certain portion of the public's opinion isn't valid. I don't like racism any more than anyone else here. But I do dislike the idea that an individual's thoughts, beliefs and feelings, no matter how much I may disagree with them, are somehow worth less than my own. And I get the sense that that is what many disenfranchised voters are feeling - that they are being looked down upon as ignorant, racists who have no right to be in the conversation. And that's what brings out people on the margins and drives them towards extremes, like Reform. Whether you like it or not, the racist, bigot, anti-european nextdoor to you has just as much say in the country as you do. Intellectual superiority is never going to bring them round.

I don't need you to tell me to 'fight against' racism. I know what it looks it like, thank you. And China would be our enemy whether we were in Europe or not (and has been for a long time), so that's immaterial. I remember covering an EDL march 12 years ago, when there was a Cons-Lib Dem coalition, so the idea that this is a new problem is rubbish. BUT Reform is doing an excellent job of galvanising a minority in reaction to smug liberals like you, who blame the electorate's collective ignorance for all the country's demons. What right have you for a moral mandate?

No they aren't. You're coming across as a smug, superior liberal, and that's what old fashioned voters (labour, Cons and now Reform) hate. That 'the deplorables' 'they're all ignorant racists' line is what's driving people away from the traditional parties and towards Reform. You're as guilty of looking back as Labour. This is a new, post-europe world and we all need to come to terms with that, make do with what we have, and move forward.

Yes, all this. Totally Sephiroth. The electorate wants to see transformation overnight. That's not possible. But what is possible is leading with the right comms strategy, which isn't cutting through. As I've said before, messaging matters more now than policy, that's the only way to bring the electorate with you. And I worry that that's how Reform's going to get into power. And the media LOVES Reform.

Messaging, messaging, messaging. That's all it boils down to. There are only so many fiscal policies out there, and they're there for the taking, no matter which party you're in. I hate to say it, but Farage gets it right every time. Even when Reform reneges on fiscal policy, it does it with enough confidence and candidness that no one is wringing their hands. Instead, they're quietly admired for their pragmatism. Strangely, it's exactly the same as Labour has done, with its manifesto reverse on income tax, but it's going to bomb. Blaming the Tories / Brexit / Covid / Putin ... none of it washes with the public anymore - it wants to be sold a vision of the future, not reminded of the disasters of the past. Labour put itself on the back foot with its 'the tories fucked it all up' stance right at the beginning of its tenure. All Lammy had to do (as with Reeves and Raynor etc) was say 'mea culpa. We've made a mistake, we'll fix it. Sorry guys, we're on it'. But instead it's 'nothing to see here / it's someone else's fault / I was buying a suit / hadn't been briefed yet'. And, of course, the press smells blood, which never helps. Oh! And Reeve's speech on Wednesday was so drab and predictable that even the journalists at the press conference couldn't really be arsed to come up with any challenging questions.

Is it lame? Or is it Lamey? (sorry)

They all need to progress out of passionate, angry student activist mode and into boss mode. It's the tail wagging the dog at the moment.

Yep CRP Dave. It reminded me of Jess Phillips a couple of weeks ago, when the grooming gangs enquiry started going tits up. It's not very statesman-like to lose your shit like that in the chamber. It's one unedifying display after another.