first mate

Do we think children will also start arriving in coaches to Charter?

What an incredibly biased and unbalanced feedback document, already hailing the closures as a success. Aren?t the same architects and supporters advising detractors that they must wait months before we can possibly begin to measure how successful these interventions are? How is the council getting away with such biased feedback documents? Still nada on social distancing and the R is slowly creeping up. If, as seems likely, we have another lockdown, no stats on traffic levels can possibly be used as evidence of road closure success.

I am sure you are right but the ?period of irritation? will only apply to those who were always able to do without a car. There are many, possibly more than might be thought, who do need to use a vehicle, especially under the current circumstances. For them these measures are ridiculously punitive and heavy-handed and yet the response by those pushing road closures is a shrug and suggestions along the lines that perhaps they should go and live somewhere else. Machiavellian, arrogant and paternalistic. andrewc Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think what the council are trying to do is to > frustrate the car user so that they use the car > less. Over time the frustration turns to > acceptance but only after a period of irritation. > This is the case now when driving into town. Most > of us have accepted that driving in to the centre > is more hassle than its worth. It took a few years > but in the end 'we' generally accept the change. > This is what is happening locally. A period of > pain and irritation which will result in more of > us driving less.

As you will be aware, I have not been impressed by Concordia so we can only hope they have upped their game. It is quite a prize they have snaffled. I had hoped SELDOC would also be moved over. Is that happening?

Yes, and then how will they mitigate effects of pollution to the schools on LL and Charter and Health Centre on EDG? What have they got in mind there? ED is now officially a car free zone?

was that SELDOC or something else?

I think we have to ask ourselves whether this is genuine accident (poor management/piecemeal) or design? What can Southwark hope to gain from this approach?

And so it will continue. Soon multiple roads in ED will ask to be blocked off. I do not understand why Cllr Livingstone and Cllr McAsh are not more intimately involved in the working detail of these interventions when they have been so hands-on, present and active in consultations and lobbying with targeted locals and pressure groups, to get road closures underway. lpool Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My wife witnessed what was very nearly a serious > accident today at the Nelbourne Grove blockade. As > per many drivers, only sees road block last minute > so slams on brakes and throws into reverse, only > just missing adult with child on a cycle coming > out of Ashbourne Grove. I will be contacting the > council. I inspected all the current signage > yesterday and it is woefully inadequate and in > contravention to minimum requirements. > > Ashbourne Grove appears to have become a race > track with vehicles desperate to make up for lost > time. It is only a matter of time before their is > an accident and the risk of someone being injured > or worse. I?m not sure this was something > supporters of the scheme envisaged. If it carries > on like this then we may see Ashbourne Grove > residents blocking the end of the road to force > vehicles to go back the way they came.

You may be right. My understanding has been that in terms of strategy they are involved/ decision influencers with some heft, especially re wellbeing and mental health; it is also the case that some LA workers have some access to patient information. All that said, if the new Health Centre is indeed offering on site X-rays that is good news. I just feel the whole site should have been given over to hospital style services, I cannot believe there is not a need for this, especially when the GP super practice involved has premises locally as well as elsewhere in the borough.

I had thought LAs had input into CCGs and often had representation on them?

IS SELDOC, the out of hours service still there? Also not clear why hospital space was given to a GP Practice. It is not as if we are not in need of hospital services. Seems like a wasted opportunity for a prime site. This hospital used to offer x-rays, maternity services and many other things that I am sure the community would value, instead they plonk a GP Practice there - which already has premises elsewhere and which has not had the best reputation to date.

This is what our councillor posted on the subject ?not sure of details re emergency services, but as I said before these things do have to be agreed with them.? I think you will agree that is hardly conclusive. In my view, the right questions are being asked and not one of them is indicative of hysteria. northernmonkey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It wasn't the original poster I was commenting on > hysteria for - more that by saying 'the emergency > services have been in contact and told 'us' that > they weren't consulted', then it allows lots of > other people to become understandably very > concerned about the lack of consultation. This > concern may or may not be valid depending on a) > whether the statement is true and b) how it was > made. > > Trying to understand facts and then act on them is > not 'polarising'. Believing what an anonymous > poster says at face value when it directly > contradicts other statements on a subject and > without any further clarification is one of the > biggest issues with social media. Requesting > clarification is not an affront! > > Also - yes, James is very 'political' - but I > don't generally think that an affinity for Marxist > politics, means that he would necessarily push > through changes without the correct consultation. > We don't know though, so again it would be helpful > to have facts to ask the right questions!

Disagreement with your stance does not equal ?hysteria?. Stop polarising. The majority on here are not anti cycling and do want reductions in pollution and traffic but we want sensible, properly considered interventions, based on data that is solid and that we can trust. If emergency services have been left out of the loop that is further evidence that these latest measures are opportunistic and politically driven and do not have the best interests of residents at their core. Our Councillor seems to be a very political type indeed...enough said.

I find it worrying that the greater concern is to dissect the phrasing of a poster to try to discredit them rather than focus on a potentially very serious issue. These measures have been implemented off the back of a health crisis but it seems emergency services have not been fully briefed. That is scary and wrong. EDAus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Your point? > > You made several unsubstantiated statements and > assumptions, I corrected them. > > What really is the point here? > > Or is the real point of all these sudden posts to > drown out alternative viewpoints, to shut down > debate and to wear down any form of objection > until the loudest voices are heard yet again.

I would have thought it was entirely reasonable to be concerned about emergency service access. If those services have not been properly involved in the process of road closures that strikes me as very odd.

Given these are emergency measures why, as Ed Aus alludes to, are emergency services not fully in the loop? That strikes me as very odd and, if true, a significant oversight. Surely those MG residents that asked for this road closure are not themselves continuing to use cars. Shouldn?t they now be forced to walk, cycle or take the bus? KatyKoo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > thebestnameshavegone Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > They're being asked to implement these measures > > *specifically* via the ETRO process, by both > the > > Mayor, and the DfT, as a way to enable active > > travel as a response to coronavirus. This is an > > emergency, and the appropriate tools are being > > used. > > At last a voice of reason :)

That is most interesting. On another thread James McAsh gave the impression emergency services had been informed. Am I alone in finding it odd the haste with which the council has forced through its OHS agenda, cynically using the Covid emergency to do so but, in the process, has seemingly failed to properly communicate with emergency services about street closures and the potential impact on those who might need those services? EDAus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > We knew the barrier had been installed as the > traffic on Ashbourne Grove has increased already > with cars / vans from Melbourne Grove to Lordship > Lane in particular, a number speeding. > > It is interesting to note double yellow lines have > only been installed on one side of Melbourne Grove > South which would not allow for a truck or > anything bigger than a car to turn. > > In the 10 minutes we visited we saw over three > cars approach the barrier and turn down Tell > Grove, a small narrow road which is not equipped > for this high volume of traffic. > > We have also been contacted by one of the > emergency services as they have not been contacted > / consulted on in relation to the closure, they > requested additional information. I am concerned > the road closure will lead to poorer outcomes for > emergencies.

Hi James, The example of the Loughborough Junction fisaco indicates that while agencies are consulted they may not necessarily be across the detail and implications. I wonder if in this case emergency services are across the detail and aware that only a minority of local residents support the measures?

But aside from what it looks like, what is your response to the experience of those like the poster above you?

I don?t think Southwark Cyclists care. This is about their fanatical car free vision for ED. Once they have helped the council realise mass CPZ let?s see how much car parking suddenly becomes available again, once it?s a source of income for the Council. If you require a car for work too bad, if you work too far to use a bike, again too bad, if you are not fit enough to negotiate the very steep hills either end of ED, too bad, if you feel to nervous to cycle at night, too bad. Let?s not forget that representatives of Southwark Cycling have also implied that people who do not live close enough to cycle to their workplace should move. It?s a very rigid way of thinking.

I certainly think for many older people carrying a folder is tricky but for young, fit people, perhaps more of whom might be flat dwellers, the folder is perfect for commuting and can be taken into the office or home. I have found it easy to take into most leisure facilities and, as you say, also great on public transport. Agree, no good to leave chained as easily stolen, but then that seems to be the case with many half decent bikes and I don?t think we should invest public money in storage unless we are very confident they are secure. It is not as though the council has loads of dosh to spare. I would personally prefer to see that money spent on mending dangerous, uneven pavements and pot holes in roads. Finally, it seems no money has been spent on social distancing by foot- a much more urgent consideration right now.

Indeed. Just query the wisdom of spending on hangars that are clearly not secure. I keep saying folders are a great option!

That?s what happens when a hospital is turned into a giant GP Practice with an appalling record of incompetence ie Concordia /Hambledon. Another cracking Southwark decision. If they cannot get the phones sorted do we really trust them with our health? Interested to see that the Health Centre has been downgraded to a GP Practice. Is this the case or is the Practice contained within a wider health centre?

I think most of us had figured this.

Well, in this one instance I guess it does make sense to get the work done before autumn but let?s hope it is done as quickly as possible. For those needing to travel and who for health reasons cannot, walk, cycle or take public transport it is pretty galling.