Brexit View

[Jenny1]

Loutwo Wrote:

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> Jenny that?s not the case. We would continue to

> trade with the rest of the world through existing

> agreements on goods and services which would

> include agricultural exports.

>

> Louisa.

Which 'existing agreements' are those?

[Loutwo]

John I beg to differ.

You?ve come out with a lot of hot air tonight, but sitting through your posts I am struggling to find any ?facts?.

You have very little understanding of how a no deal Brexit would work in reality. You need to read up on WTO rules, and the limited actions possible to take by the EU in the event of such a situation. The doom and gloom scenario is way way off the mark, and I think you?re smart enough to know that.

Louisa.

[peckman]

Let's be honest .. none of the posts that me Lou, the cat , sue et al .. and especially dulwich fox really matters. We are living in a little bubble.and if you disagree try moving to Middlesbrough etc (and I lived there) . Or even Peterborough.. I visited there a few times and the high street. That the problem.. and brexit wont solve it !

[Loutwo]

Jenny, I suggest you read this article below:

https://deframedia.blog.gov.uk/2019/08/15/inaccurate-coverage-on-farming-in-a-no-deal-brexit/

And put down your copy of the Guardian which is not at all non-biased in its reporting.

Louisa.

[Jenny1]

Loutwo Wrote:

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> John I beg to differ.

>

>You need to

> read up on WTO rules, and the limited actions

> possible to take by the EU in the event of such a

> situation.

Louisa. We do seem to be talking at cross purposes on this. No country currently only operates under WTO rules. There's a reason for that.

Also you seem to think that it's EU or indeed WTO 'sanctions' that might dissuade the UK from reducing all its tariffs to zero, and if there are no such sanctions it would be in the UK's interests to do this. But such a reduction would flood the UK market with cheap imports that would kill off the farming industry overnight. No UK government will therefore do this. This means the 'open all the borders, cut all the tariffs' idea is not a serious one.

[Jenny1]

Loutwo Wrote:

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> Jenny, I suggest you read this article below:

>

> https://deframedia.blog.gov.uk/2019/08/15/inaccura

> te-coverage-on-farming-in-a-no-deal-brexit/

>

> And put down your copy of the Guardian which is

> not at all non-biased in its reporting.

>

> Louisa.

But that article is about the UK government's 'support' payments to UK farming and has nothing to do with the consequences for UK farming of zero tariffs on agricultural imports.

[Sephiroth]

Lou quoting a government blog from a couple of weeks ago. Just after Johnson set about penalising and firing anyone who said anything negative about Brexit. But that?s a valid source apparently.

What do farmers have to say?

https://www.fginsight.com/news/news/defra-under-fire-from-british-farmers-for-disappointing-brexit-leaflet-92405

[dbboy]

As someone who is on life time meds and which without could put me back in hospital, a couple of months ago, the pharmacy had trouble getting the meds as production had temporarily ceased, no explanation given. Fortunately as I had just had enough to cover that period. Had I not it could have been a different story. Now I don't know if it was coincidence or Brexit related, but med shortages are already with us.

I believe that some fresh foods that are either produced in or comes from Europe will either go into short supply or rocket in price, unless the UK can grow or make the product here. While it may not initially be tariffs that cause prices to increase the supply and demand market will be affected which will result in price increases. Even things like fresh flowers that have already increased in price will see further increases. Leaving the EU will have consequences on probably 90% of households. It will be a case of suck it and see, one good reason to remain.

[diable rouge]

Prediction for what should turn out to be a monumental week in Parliament:

Rebels win and Johnson calls an election with his People v Politicians playbook. Only problem with that is he needs two thirds of MPs to agree i.e. quite a few Labour MPs to vote for it too. Normally Corbyn would be all over an election like a rash, but I'm wondering does he realise if he's cute enough he can make 'do or die' Johnson sweat it out until after the 31st deadline passes, after which Johnson politically 'dies' as he's screwed up on delivering Brexit. This opens the door for Farage again, but Corbyn has a much better chance of beating him than Johnson in an election, with the possibility of becoming PM in a Remain coalition...

[Loutwo]

As I have already suggested, the whole point of proroguing Parliament was to wrong foot remainer MP?s into a General Election. And I would not be surprised if one is called within days.

Louisa.

[diable rouge]

And as my post points out, it's quite easy for anti no-delaers to wrong foot Johnson...

[JohnL]

Loutwo Wrote:

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> As I have already suggested, the whole point of

> proroguing Parliament was to wrong foot remainer

> MP?s into a General Election. And I would not be

> surprised if one is called within days.

>

> Louisa.

Corbyn has said today he will support a GE - but I'm still not sure.

Why give Johnson 5 years whilst the country goes to the dogs (you may disagree it will - but that's OK as I'm using the assumption it will)

[Loutwo]

And of course, a GE could produce the same result, this leaving ya back in square one with a Brexit deadline looming days after.

Louisa.

[JohnL]

dbboy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As someone who is on life time meds and which

> without could put me back in hospital, a couple of

> months ago, the pharmacy had trouble getting the

> meds as production had temporarily ceased, no

> explanation given. Fortunately as I had just had

> enough to cover that period. Had I not it could

> have been a different story. Now I don't know if

> it was coincidence or Brexit related, but med

> shortages are already with us.

>

> I believe that some fresh foods that are either

> produced in or comes from Europe will either go

> into short supply or rocket in price, unless the

> UK can grow or make the product here. While it may

> not initially be tariffs that cause prices to

> increase the supply and demand market will be

> affected which will result in price increases.

> Even things like fresh flowers that have already

> increased in price will see further increases.

> Leaving the EU will have consequences on probably

> 90% of households. It will be a case of suck it

> and see, one good reason to remain.

We're going to have to prioritise if there are problems.

Water, Medicines and Power come first (OK we can put up with some power cuts but not many as we rely on power so much these days - unlike the 70s where power cuts happened regularly).

Food variety and other stuff (toiletries) we can make do for a while (it won't kill us).

[diable rouge]

Loutwo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And of course, a GE could produce the same result,

> this leaving ya back in square one with a Brexit

> deadline looming days after.

>

> Louisa.

I think the reason for Johnson to call for a GE would be because the anti-no dealers had succeeded in getting legislation put in place to defer the 31st deadline by some means, e.g. compelling Johnson to ask for an extension. This will be the anti-no dealers main priority, not a vote of no confidence...

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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> We're going to have to prioritise if there are

> problems.

>

> Water, Medicines and Power come first (OK we can

> put up with some power cuts but not many as we

> rely on power so much these days - unlike the 70s

> where power cuts happened regularly).

>

> Food variety and other stuff (toiletries) we can

> make do for a while (it won't kill us).

The United Kingdom. During peacetime. In 2019. Bonkers...

[pk]

Loutwo Wrote:

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> we will continue to keep a free and open border with the

> single market with 0% tariffs.. .

>

> Louisa.

and you think that's what people voted for?

I'm pretty sure it isn't

[peckman]

A general election wont solve anything .. it will just make us more divided .. as will another ref . Tbh .. I havent a clue .. apart from let boris get us out and completely bllx it up.

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Corbyn has said today he will support a GE - but

> I'm still not sure.

One trap that has been highlighted today is that Johnson could propose an election date before the next EU Council meeting in mid-Oct, get MPs' approval but then later legally change the date to the 31st Oct or beyond. One would hope that Corbyn is aware of this and doesn't take the bait. The priority has to be to get legislation in place to stop No Deal on the 31st...

[pk]

peckman Wrote:

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> A general election wont solve anything .. it will

> just make us more divided .. as will another ref .

> Tbh .. I havent a clue .. apart from let boris get

> us out and completely bllx it up.

I don't understand how a new ref asking in effect 'now that you know more about what Brexit actually means and how little anyone knew in 2016 (and how much inaccurate info was spread e.g. on the side of a bus) - with specific actionable options offered (e.g. a deal, no deal, remain)(rather than the ridiculous over-simplified 'Brexit means Brexit' mantra), do you still want to do it?' would be divisive?

i think that it's hard to argue that 52% voted for the same thing, so it's only right to check if anything achievable from here is what people want knowing what we know now (and if it is then (even as a remainer) i would back getting on with it)

i also think its very likely (bearing in mind only a 2% swing is required) that what is happening now is not supported by half of the population or MPs and taken together with e.g. suspension of parliament, it's hard to see this as democratic

i guess there's only one way to find out the will of the people where we are now - and that's to ask them

[diable rouge]

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> i think that it's hard to argue that 52% voted for

> the same thing, so it's only right to check if

> anything achievable from here is what people want

> knowing what we know now (and if it is then (even

> as a remainer) i would back getting on with it)

I wouldn't back them getting on with it, but I would shut up..:)

[nxjen]

Electioneering has begun

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49554230/boris-johnson-s-new-rescue-puppy-moves-in-to-downing-street

[JohnL]

nxjen Wrote:

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> Electioneering has begun

>

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49554230

> /boris-johnson-s-new-rescue-puppy-moves-in-to-down

> ing-street

He looks so sad.

[teddyboy23]

He'hoping there's not. a domestic in no 10 tonight.

[seenbeen]

dbboy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As someone who is on life time meds and which

> without could put me back in hospital, a couple of

> months ago, the pharmacy had trouble getting the

> meds as production had temporarily ceased, no

> explanation given. Fortunately as I had just had

> enough to cover that period. Had I not it could

> have been a different story. Now I don't know if

> it was coincidence or Brexit related, but med

> shortages are already with us.

>

> I believe that some fresh foods that are either

> produced in or comes from Europe will either go

> into short supply or rocket in price, unless the

> UK can grow or make the product here. While it may

> not initially be tariffs that cause prices to

> increase the supply and demand market will be

> affected which will result in price increases.

> Even things like fresh flowers that have already

> increased in price will see further increases.

> Leaving the EU will have consequences on probably

> 90% of households. It will be a case of suck it

> and see, one good reason to remain.

Drug manufacture is quality controlled at every stage. The methodology is exacting and thorough. It could be a problem at any stage of production. There are several companies in the UK that carry out the QC and QA and they are answerable to USA standards as well as EU standards