Brexit View

[Alan Medic]

3200

[JohnL]

Boris went out the back door in Edinburgh to avoid the boos.

Wales today :)

[JohnL]

More importantly though pound is falling fast - Does the BoE put up interest rates ?

[Seabag]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Boris went out the back door in Edinburgh to avoid

> the boos.

>

> Wales today :)

Oh nice, they?ll boo in harmony.

[diable rouge]

It's not only the sheep that are worried in the valleys, the farmers are too...

[JohnL]

"Boris Johnson has been threatened with civil unrest, including tractors blocking roads, by Welsh sheep farmers angered by the Prime Minister?s move towards a no-deal Brexit."

But don't worry

"WELSH farmers concerned over extensive tariffs imposed on their products in the event of a no deal Brexit scenario have been reassured by Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns that new markets, such as Japan's, will be crucial - allowing their businesses to flourish post-Brexit."

[Jenny1]

I doubt there's a Welsh sheep farmer out there who doesn't know what seems to have escaped Alun Cairns, that these are imaginary new markets. The Japanese sheep meat tariff is 0 per cent for everyone. The Japanese are not known for their fondness for lamb or mutton.

[malumbu]

Sorry if my sense of humour is too subtle (or SE22 is having a sense of humour bypass). BoJo going on about a million to one chance that we leave without a deal. And that reminded me of Jeff Wayne, and the track Eve of War, from the late 70s concept album war of the worlds.

Let's face it you just have to laugh. They could do this in the middle ages with the plague. Although that wasn't self-inflicted.

The other track that comes to mind, from the same source, is Forever Autumn. I couldn't find a well-known example of a song about a nuclear winter.

[Sephiroth]

I?m reminded of Brigg?s ?when the wind blows?

Nuclear bomb is coming but plucky Brits receive government leaflets on how to prepare - so they convince themselves it?ll all be alright in the end

Do we need a spoiler alert? Things were not alright in the end

[malumbu]

Good link. Like it!

[JohnL]

Saw someone in a "f*ck Boris" TShirt today at Peckham Rye :)

[ed_pete]

What that his girlfriend ?

[DulwichFox]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Saw someone in a "f*ck Boris" TShirt today at

> Peckham Rye :)

That was Jeremy Corbyn

[malumbu]

Have people lost interest? Or just resigned to a disaster. So my reading is that the main reason just over half of the population voted leave was for sovereignty. That is a political not an economic decision. I'm not understanding where the mandate is for this hard Brexit. I see the comments on the BBC which are polarized - you are stupid to vote Brexit vs you sad remainer loser, get over it. No debate on what people actually want. I'm still hoping it is all a bad dream. The other worry is how BoJo has any credibility having no substance or integrity. You could also say the same about the leader of the opposition, although he isn't leading us over the cliff edge, irrespective that he is a big contributor to this friggin mess.

[cella]

In what way is he? He is not part of the Government.

[pk]

cella Wrote:

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> In what way is he? He is not part of the

> Government.

But sadly he?s not providing a credible alternative

So agree he?s part of the problem and was pre-referendum too

I?m not sure even he knows what he thinks most of the time

One thing that the country needs is a new leader of the opposition

[diable rouge]

I don't think people have lost interest, Parliament's in recess and people want to forget about it for a bit and try and enjoy the summer, a recharging of the batteries before it all kicks off in Sept...

[Earl Aelfheah]

The sovereignty argument is not one I feel I can engage in tbh. I don't get it. If we're going to do trade deals with other countries (the US for example), post brexit - then we'll have to give up control over certain decisions (there will have to be common standards and independent arbitration mechanisms in cases of dispute). Any kind of co-operation, or multilateral relationship will involve pooling sovereignty. The truth is that before 2016, the EU was not on people's list of major concerns. An abstract argument about 'Sovereignty' is just all that Brexit believers have left when everything else slips away.

Personally, I don't think Brexit was really about Europe at all. It was about people feeling that they had no control over their lives, or a general sense of injustice and a system which wasn't working for the majority.

[Sephiroth]

"It was about people feeling that they had no control over their lives, or a general sense of injustice and a system which wasn't working for the majority."

This is a reason commonly cited but I always feel obliged to point out

a) it was as much the smug, fat complacent golf club bores that voted for brexit as anyone else

b) other countries (included some in the UK, as well as EU) have plenty of people who have a similar sense of injustice etc etc - but THOSE countries (quite correctly) don't see leaving the EU as an answer to that

So there is something else going on here with England (and Wales to a degree) and Englishness IMO

[Earl Aelfheah]

Yeah, i do agree with what you say Sephiroth. The difference here is probably two things:

1) a sense of English exceptionalism which is a hangover from colonialism and the teaching of history in relation to the world wars (this is particularly strong amongst the golf club bores and the public school boys who have helped engineer brexit

2) a decades long propaganda battle in the right wing press, which has pushed dodgy stories about bendy bananas, red tape and immigration scare stories.

The financial crash and the subsequent austerity agenda (leading to the sense amongst many that led to a lack of "control over their lives, or a general sense of injustice and a system which wasn't working for the majority"), was the spark which made it possible for 1. & 2. to push EU membership up the agenda.

[Sephiroth]

Yep - something along those lines but I don't think english exceptionalism is confined to the well off

If I look at the people who suffered most because of austerity in countries like Ireland you don't see anything like the same hostility to the EU

Those right wing papers get sold in Ireland but of course those particular stories are left out or recast - is it the media's fault for pushing an anti eu agenda or is it just that they sell what people want to buy?

I guess I'm pointing the finger at voters more than many others appear happy to. yes politicians are cowardly and won't tell them the truth, and similarly media - but voters still need to take responsibility for this

[JohnL]

cella Wrote:

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> In what way is he? He is not part of the

> Government.

If the anti-no dealers in parliament could unite they could get behind a caretaker PM with no ambition to be permanent PM (Harriet Harman, Ken Clarke etc) and form a temporary unity government after a vote of no confidence in September.

Can't really see Corbyn allowing it.

[JohnL]

Domino's is stockpiling pineapple (amongst other things) to put on pizza :)

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/06/business/dominos-stockpiling-ingredients-gbr-intl-scli/index.html

[Earl Aelfheah]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> ... I don't think english exceptionalism is confined to the

> well off

I agree, although the 'glories of empire' are strongly propagated in some English public schools.

[DulwichFox]

We have seen the collapse of many Empires including the British Empire when we once ruled most of the World.

The E.U. is just the latest Empire which itself will soon break up and expire.

It is amazing that the UK sends Money to the E.U. in Brussells

Why are they not sending money to us. London. Why are we NOT in charge. ??

Most scams start with a 30day free trial.

You know the ones where the small print does not allow you to leave without paying to do so.

They just keep taking money out of your account. You have very little control over it.

So lets not worry too much about a No Deal Brexit. Leave and get on with it.