Moped crime

[rendelharris]

An interesting read given the prevalence of this sort of thing in our neck of the woods:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/22/moped-menace-muggers-vehicle-of-choice-scooters-acid-attacks-phone-robberies

The idea of tickets for not securing a moped properly seems worth considering: doubtless it would draw outraged wails of "criminalising the victims" but if one owns a shotgun, for example, one will be sanctioned for making it too easy for criminals to obtain, why shouldn't it be the same with mopeds? Also it might make people think a bit more about their own best interests, can't believe people still leave their 'peds unchained all day - given their poor security, one might as well leave a bicycle unlocked on the street.

[DulwichFox]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> An interesting read given the prevalence of this

> sort of thing in our neck of the woods:

>

> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/22/mo

> ped-menace-muggers-vehicle-of-choice-scooters-acid

> -attacks-phone-robberies

>

> The idea of tickets for not securing a moped

> properly seems worth considering: doubtless it

> would draw outraged wails of "criminalising the

> victims" but if one owns a shotgun, for example,

> one will be sanctioned for making it too easy for

> criminals to obtain, why shouldn't it be the same

> with mopeds? Also it might make people think a

> bit more about their own best interests, can't

> believe people still leave their 'peds unchained

> all day - given their poor security, one might as

> well leave a bicycle unlocked on the street.

As I understand it, Acid was used to steal mopeds from riders as they were on their bikes.

The mopeds were then used to commit further crimes. You cannot punish owners in those cases.

Also, criminals are using Heavy Duty Bolt Croppers to cut through any securing mechanisms. Chains etc.

This crime wave has evidently increased 10 fold over the last year.

Kids carrying knives.. Spraying acid.. Nicking bikes.. Snatching bags and Phones..

It really is out of control.. Blamed on lack of Youth Club Facilities..

It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

These kids do not want Youth Clubs. They do not want to play Table Tennis.. Five-a-side Football.

These kids are Criminals and need to be treated as Criminals.

The crimes they commit are serious.. NOT petty.

The increase in crime IMHO is down in part to the closure of Police Stations and the reduction of Foot Patrol Police Officers. and also very much due to Police Priorities which means they have to justify their existence financially.

Catching motorists and generating money from fines seem to be the main Priority.

There simply isn't the resources to cover non cost effective Policing.

The situation is grave and will only get worse.

DulwichFox

[rendelharris]

In the case of the acid crimes, no there's nothing the owners could have done. But as the article makes clear, most of these thefts are of mopeds which can have their steering lock broken by twisting the bars then pushing them away. Chaining them up means the thieves have to carry boltcutters and angle grinders - something most of them are reluctant to do as they're then going equipped. Chaining a bike up with a good chain will be enough to deter many and send them off in search of easy pickings (talking about those looking to pinch mopeds to use in crime, not professional bike thieves looking to sell on what they steal).

By all means increase the sentences for riding on stolen bikes, as suggested in the article, but more prevention has to play a part.

[Loz]

I would rather change the law that put the onus on the rider that, if they are not wearing a helmet, any injury from a crash in a chase is presumed to be their fault, not the police.

Major part of the problem solved.

[rendelharris]

Loz Wrote:

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> I would rather change the law that put the onus on

> the rider that, if they are not wearing a helmet,

> any injury from a crash in a chase is presumed to

> be their fault, not the police.

>

> Major part of the problem solved.

Agree 100%, the current approach is ludicrous - though actually I'd say whether they're wearing a helmet or not, you crash in a police pursuit, totally your fault; you had a choice to stop or run, once you choose to run any mistakes you make are totally down to you. But I think also encouraging owners to make it more difficult for the scrotes to get their grubby mitts on the bikes is well worthwhile.

[ianr]

Loz Wrote:

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> I would rather change the law that put the onus on

> the rider that, if they are not wearing a helmet,

> any injury from a crash in a chase is presumed to

> be their fault, not the police.

>

Do you mean 'liability' rather than 'onus'?

Would the presumption be a rebuttable one?

> Major part of the problem solved.

What specific defect in law are you actually seeking to remedy?

[Loz]

ianr Wrote:

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> Do you mean 'liability' rather than 'onus'?

> Would the presumption be a rebuttable one?

I think you are trying to take a wayward tangent to the point I am making.

> What specific defect in law are you actually

> seeking to remedy?

The one that means police officers are be held responsible if an rider dies or is injured because they crash whilst being pursued without a helmet.

[singalto]

Riding a moped/ motorcycle without a helmet is against the law and yet police officers cannot pursue criminals who, having broken the law by committing a crime, continue to break the law by not wearing helmets!

[uncleglen]

Unfortunately, it is not only the helmet-less thief who is in danger if pursued but also pedestrians, as the thief would not baulk at mounting the pavement etc to get away.

[JohnL]

Police authorised to use stingers

(mostly behind firewall)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stingers-deployed-to-stop-moped-crime-b6csdc2vr

[Loz]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Unfortunately, it is not only the helmet-less

> thief who is in danger if pursued but also

> pedestrians, as the thief would not baulk at

> mounting the pavement etc to get away.

That could happen even if they are wearing a helmet and, by the 'rules', could be pursued.

And where do you draw the line - after all, any (alleged) criminal being pursued might do something to endanger the public.

[BrandNewGuy]

A review of the law and rules surrounding police pursuits:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41390580

[DulwichLondoner]

As a motorcyclist (who uses a 10 kg Pragmasis chain at home - google it) I wouldn't be against making it compulsory to lock your scooter/motorcycle with some kind of chain or ulock, and fining people who don't.

Fixing a motorcycle to street furniture is another matter, though. Motorcycle bays with anchors are very rare, and parking wardens have zero tolerance for those who park motorcycles even just an inch away from the bay, in order to secure them to some fixed object. How much would it cost the councils to equip more central London bays with anchors? Some bays in Chelsea and near Paddington have them already. Oh, and Westminster charges ?100 per year for the privilege of parking a motorcycle in their bays - maybe a small portion of that money could go towards the anchors?

None of this will deter those who carry portable, battery-operated grinders to cut through chains, but at least it would be a start.

Not chasing these distinguished gentlemen for fear they might hurt themselves is ridiculous; what is real and not ridiculous, however, is that chasing them may end up harming innocent bystanders.

[Angelina]

I think the point is being missed.

The police have ended up facing charges for chases that ended in fatalities and this is as much for their own protection.

Police chasing inexperienced riders is just, frankly dangerous on many levels.

[DulwichLondoner]

* The police have ended up facing charges for chases that ended in fatalities and this is as much for their own protection. *

I get that, and I get that the police needs to protect itself. All I'm saying is that maybe the laws should be a little bit less scumbag-friendly. How does the rest of the world go about it? Genuine question. I'm hoping there is a more reasonable balance between the US, where the police can shoot you for no reason (especially if you're not white...), and here, where they basically never chase you.

[JohnL]

Angelina Wrote:

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> I think the point is being missed.

> The police have ended up facing charges for chases

> that ended in fatalities and this is as much for

> their own protection.

>

> Police chasing inexperienced riders is just,

> frankly dangerous on many levels.

shoot them with a geotag sticky thingy (anyone invent one ) :)

[Angelina]

yes - something like that would do.

surely we should have the technology by now.

[Loz]

JohnL Wrote:

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> shoot them with a geotag sticky thingy (anyone invent one ) :)

A mobile phone strapped to a bowling ball ought to do the trick...!

[teddyboy23]

Two dickheads on a moped smashed a hole in the door on the small opticians on lordship lane the weekend gone .not sure if they stole anything.apparently there have been ten breakins on shops in lordship lane the past 2 weeks

[Angelina]

The Untouchables.