TheCat Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Is this a legit thing to be concerned about? or just envy that other people have more money?go.... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Both. Legit and envy. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1193866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red devil Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Is envy a personal trait Mick or are you inferring to the country as a whole?... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1193903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loz Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Have you noticed something about every story in the Guardian about the Paradise Papers? None of them are open to comment. Why? Because they know that many commentators will point out the Guardian Media Group's own off-shore shenanigans.The stories over the years have been, unsurprisingly, covered in other media outlets, including the Forbes and The Spectator.https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/28/the-insufferable-hypocrisy-of-the-guardian-on-corporation-tax/#2c2084065969https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/will-the-guardian-now-investigate-its-own-tax-arrangements/The Guardian were forced to defend themselves, which basically came down to "yeah, we push lots of money offshore, but that shouldn't stop us complaining that others do it". https://www.theguardian.com/money/tax-gap-blog/2009/feb/02/tax-gap-guardianI think Forbes' description of 'insufferable hypocrisy' pretty much sums it up. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1194575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Loz Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Have you noticed something about every story in> the Guardian about the Paradise Papers? None of> them are open to comment. Why? Because they know> that many commentators will point out the Guardian> Media Group's own off-shore shenanigans.> > The stories over the years have been,> unsurprisingly, covered in other media outlets,> including the Forbes and The Spectator.> > https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/2> 8/the-insufferable-hypocrisy-of-the-guardian-on-co> rporation-tax/#2c2084065969> https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/will-the-gua> rdian-now-investigate-its-own-tax-arrangements/> > The Guardian were forced to defend themselves,> which basically came down to "yeah, we push lots> of money offshore, but that shouldn't stop us> complaining that others do it". > > https://www.theguardian.com/money/tax-gap-blog/200> 9/feb/02/tax-gap-guardian> > I think Forbes' description of 'insufferable> hypocrisy' pretty much sums it up.I doubt the journalists who write the stories see much of this though - they just see further cost cutting along with all the back office workers who lose their jobs as the big newspapers all merge and have "economies of scale".So who benefits from GMG doing this. I say it's the greed of the same people at the top (the super rich). Of course everybody who works for a company where the executives are greedy like this could resign, doubt it will happen :) Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1194662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loz Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 JohnL Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> I doubt the journalists who write the stories see much of this though - they just see further cost> cutting along with all the back office workers who lose their jobs as the big newspapers all merge> and have "economies of scale".Maybe, though as you kind of point out - perhaps they know their jobs depend on it.If you are a campaigner against off shore banking, as these journos seem to be, wouldn't it be more that a touch galling to know your employer was up to their eyeballs in it themselves? And if you knew that your job was directly financed from off shore tax wheezes, how does that impact your credibility?Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1194930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Loz Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> JohnL Wrote:> --------------------------------------------------> -----> > I doubt the journalists who write the stories> see much of this though - they just see further> cost> > cutting along with all the back office workers> who lose their jobs as the big newspapers all> merge> > and have "economies of scale".> > Maybe, though as you kind of point out - perhaps> they know their jobs depend on it.> > If you are a campaigner against off shore banking,> as these journos seem to be, wouldn't it be more> that a touch galling to know your employer was up> to their eyeballs in it themselves? And if you> knew that your job was directly financed from off> shore tax wheezes, how does that impact your> credibility?> > Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?I remember an Ethics sub course in my postgrad - but was mostly where people were harmed.this is more difficult though - maybe some would start to look for another job Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1195091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 red devil Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Is envy a personal trait Mick or are you inferring> to the country as a whole?...If you are wealthy and want a return on your investments in times of low interest, you are likely to seek a diverse portfolio of asset classes - these will potentially include a small proportion in hedge funds and private equity. But as these asset classes have investors from all over the world, then they tend to be structured in a holding company situated in the best place to suit ALL of the investors' jurisdictions. Inevitably therefore you could end up with money flowing through jurisdictions that specialise in fund administration (eg Lux) which have agreed double tax treaties with other jurisdictions. As my Mum says, but poor people cant do that.... well they wouldn't want to risk their own savings/capital in high risk investments anyway. But we all do indirectly benefit as our pensions are all likely invested partially this way. That's the defence as regards investments where the discretion as to where the investments are structured is outside each investor's individual control - and probably applies to the Queen's investments that made the press - Bespoke arrangements are a different matter, treaty shopping to achieve a personal tax benefit is less justifiable - I wouldn't be so understanding about matters such as Lewis Hamilton's jet. The public's response is partly ignorance and partly envy. But to the extent that there have been tax avoidance abuses in the past, the investigative journalism has gone a long way to solving the problem of tax abuses and will continue to do so. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1195208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Where is the line though - what do you think of the below - I suppose the difference is these were/are both used by poor people.When I was in Uni we used covenants in order for parents to give money to their children - everyone did it and you got the tax back (they were originally designed for giving to charity and the loophole was closed eventually)When I set up my current workplace pension we used a method of salary sacrifice (everyone used it and maybe still does)to get more money into the pension. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1195224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Well, neither of those involve offshore vehicles, but I'd say the latter is generally fine, you are entitled to arrange your affairs to take advantage of legitimate tax reductions offered by Govt, the former is from days gone by where the abuse of a loophole was seen as fair game - we now have a GAAR (General anti avoidance rule) that protects HMRC from people taking advantage of such abuses. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1195238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loz Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 JohnL Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> When I set up my current workplace pension we used a method of salary sacrifice (everyone used it and> maybe still does)to get more money into the pension.A company I used to work for did that - it was, I believe, both sanctioned and encouraged by HMRC. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1195288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Mick Mac Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Well, neither of those involve offshore vehicles,> but I'd say the latter is generally fine, you are> entitled to arrange your affairs to take advantage> of legitimate tax reductions offered by Govt, the> former is from days gone by where the abuse of a> loophole was seen as fair game - we now have a> GAAR (General anti avoidance rule) that protects> HMRC from people taking advantage of such abuses.GAAR - got to say I'd never heard of it. So if we feel something is designed to take advantage of a loophole - then it's illegal ? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/173504-paradise-papers/#findComment-1195433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now