What CAN we say here on EDF

[DulwichFox]

Ok.. So we now have a couple of businesses who have expressed their wish that they are no longer

mentioned here on The ED Forum.. Fair enough.

Where does this leave people who have experianced poor service elsewhere. ?

Are they NOT to post negative comments even when justified. ??

Can we really not discuss both good and bad experiances any more ?

What is the way forward. ?

This really needs to be made clear.

Fox

[Administrator]

In a nutshell, discuss them but don't say anything libellous or illegal. Simple..

[showboat]

But there is a business which has asked not to be mentioned AT ALL. And Admin seems to have agreed to this. Is that correct? Is there a list of businesses which cannot be mentioned under any circumstances?

[Administrator]

Le Chandelier and Fabric. That's the complete list after 6 years of the forum being online.

[showboat]

Aren't those posts contradictory?

Are we allowed to say anything about Le Chandelier so long as its not illegal or libellous, or is it totally off limits?

(not trying to be difficult,I'm genuinely confused)

[Administrator]

It's off limits, please read their message.

[Alan Medic]

So would you feel obliged to ban a user for persistently writing about that place?

[Administrator]

Yes

[DulwichFox]

Administrator Wrote:

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> Le Chandelier and Fabric. That's the complete list

> after 6 years of the forum being online.

You have forgot about the Greek place.

Foxy.

[Administrator]

Oh yes, but I can't remember if they asked for a complete ban or just the removal of a thread.

[Jeremy]

Administrator Wrote:

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> Oh yes, but I can't remember if they asked for a complete ban or just the removal of a thread.

Complete ban:

Administrator Wrote:

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> The owners this restaurant have asked that their company is not discussed on the forum. Any

> mention of them, good, bad or indifferent will be removed if/when we become aware of them.

[Administrator]

Nice one Jeremy.

Amendment: Le Chandelier, The Big Greek place and Fabric. That's the complete list after 6 years of the forum being online.

[Tykeinexile]

So any business good or bad that would like to get on to the forum's banned list just has to write and tell you that they wish not to be discussed on the forum? It's very clearly the begining of the end for the forum, unless you make a stand your banned list will grow and grow and the forum will loose it's critical edge. Shame.

[Alan Medic]

I don't agree a banned list is going to grow and grow. Why should it if businesses are producing the goods the consumers want? I think plenty are and there is a wide variety to suit most tastes.

I do think that Admin is possibly being overly cautious by adhering to the instructions meted out by one or two businesses. But then I don't know the possible ramifications either. We supposedly live in a world of free speech. If someone on a forum writes something that's untrue then surely it's that person who could be sued for libel. Am I wrong?

[Tykeinexile]

I hope you are right but let's see what happens.

[zeban]

There was absolutely nothing that I said that was untrue and I'm absolutely not disgruntled- not in the least bit actually! Of course most of these things come down to one person's word against another although I do have a recording I took of the owner calling me 'thick' and telling me the white coats are coming to get me. Funnily enough she also had a bad review from a completely independent customer on the site Urban Spoon (I know this because she went on and on about it in the shop whilst I was there to myself and all other staff) and demanded they remove it too, threatening them. All the review said is the same as the OP in the original thread that I posted on- that the cakes were stodgy and tasteless and the staff who were doing a great job under the circumstances were being let down by the establishment! She is a bully plain and simple.

[Alan Medic]

Zeban, I wasn't referring to you but a case in general. I think Admin has requested that specifics about that particular establishment are not discussed on the forum. Perhaps you should respect that.

[El Pibe]

The beginning of the end has been going on for 6 years, and yet weirdly it seems to thrive in spite of this; to quote Mark Twain.........

[stacey-lyn]

Admin, can you please tell me what happened to my thread on the same topic following Le Chandalier's announcement? As far as I am aware it didn't breach your rules so I would very much like to see it reinstated in it's appropriate place, please.

[Administrator]

So your thread about Le Chandelier, posted after the announcement that there should be no threads about Le Chandelier, was removed and you want to know why?

[showboat]

"I do think that Admin is possibly being overly cautious by adhering to the instructions meted out by one or two businesses. But then I don't know the possible ramifications either. We supposedly live in a world of free speech. If someone on a forum writes something that's untrue then surely it's that person who could be sued for libel. Am I wrong?"

This whole thing piqued my interest, and from what I can gather BOTH the poster and forum are liable. Most likely the rules governing the rest of the media would apply. If someone doesn't like what a journalist writes thru can sue both the journalist and the paper, and do so quite easily in the UK, where our appallingly relaxed laws allow for the worst kind of 'libel tourism' - but that's another matter, although it's no doubt a factor in Admins mind.

However, I also think it's worrying that businesses are able to be 'blocked' from any discussion, good or bad, if they want. In a recent case the involvement of the police merits the action (as it should), but if they weren't called in, there would be less grounds to cease all discussion.

I've lost track of how many businesses get trashed to one extent or another on here. I hope they recognise the value of community interaction and the benefits it can bring (as some have) and don't play hard (as others have). I also hope Admin knows where to draw the line on this, otherwise there will be nothing left if any business can delete negative feedback placed in the public domain by spitting their dummy.

[stacey-lyn]

Administrator Wrote:

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> So your thread about Le Chandelier, posted after

> the announcement that there should be no threads

> about Le Chandelier, was removed and you want to

> know why?

Oh come on now Admin, you know full well that it was NOT about Le Chandelier (which I will refer to as 'that place', so that should please all & sundry). It was about gagging - which you have done. It raised similar points as showboat, alan m etc above. So, you see Admin, it breached no rules and I again ask that you reinstate my post that referred to 'that place'. It was not libellous nor illegal.

[Administrator]

stacey-lyn, your post was discussing and criticising that place, which I have people not to. You never contributed to the original Kingsdale or "That place" thread so please don't try to stir up the place with talk about "Gagging orders", this is the East Dulwich Forum and a business has asked for itself not to be mentioned. And we already have two threads about what can/cannot be said on the EDF.

To quote me on another post (http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?30,916057,916681#msg-916681): "It's only been a few threads that I've had to remove because of requests/threats from businesses over the life of the forum. I don't just remove negative posts because I want to, I have to be given good reason. I always tell businesses that if I have to remove a negative post then I will remove all other posts in the interest of fairness, that sometimes makes them think again. With Le Chandelier I have been told by the owner that the police have now become involved and so please do not think that I remove posts willy nilly.

Libellous posts, when we are made aware of them, are removed as soon as possible.

Green and Blue, as people have mentioned, knew how to deal with criticism. They posted on here, explained their situation and then held a free wine tasting session for some forum users, especially their critics. Rather than fight they listened and engaged with the critics, a most excellent piece of work.

Anyway I can't answer all posts addressed to me but I hope this clears up some of my actions."

I'm bored of this now, can we just move on.