Can Johnson & Cumming stomach a dissenting voice?

[TheCat]

Nice article in The Spectator yesterday suggesting that Johnson needs a senior head (not from his inner circle) in close promximity to call bullsh!t on some of the more obvious/stupider moves that this government might make...

Article uses the example of Thatcher benefiting greatly from the presence of William Whitelaw - who I'm not familiar with myself given I didnt live in this country in the 80's - but was apparently not from her 'stable', but was able to temper her more extreme tendencies....

Given the amount of U-turns and missteps so far this year, this would seem like a hugely sensible move from any self-effacing leader....but on evidence thus far, it seems a the cabal of yes men and churchillian nodding dogs (OOHHH...YESS!) seems to be the preferred path of this leadership....

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-needs-a-minister-for-banana-skins

[JohnL]

Everybody needs a Willy :)

[Sephiroth]

It's definitely true that such a voice is required

But the whole point of this government is to remove dissenting voices - it's how they got elected to Get Brexit Done - I can't see them changing their mind now

[TheCat]

Agreed...but can mounting evidence, and a back catalogue of public misteps eventually give even these guys cause for self-reflection....?

I share your pessimism - but one wonders how long supposedly smart people can flail around in the dark without reaching for the available light switch...

[Blah Blah]

You are making a very good point TheCat, but the problem is that when a party is in the control of a more ideological faction, it becomes difficult to reign that in. You could argue the same about the Labour Party under Corbyn of course. There is a lack of practical realism with these kinds of leadership.

[Blah Blah]

And just to add, self reflection isn't something narcissists do. Politics is dominated by narcissists at the moment, so I personally wouldn't hold out too much hope.

[TheCat]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You are making a very good point TheCat, but the

> problem is that when a party is in the control of

> a more ideological faction, it becomes difficult

> to reign that in. You could argue the same about

> the Labour Party under Corbyn of course. There is

> a lack of practical realism with these kinds of

> leadership.

Sad but true i think.

[Sephiroth]

"Agreed...but can mounting evidence, and a back catalogue of public misteps eventually give even these guys cause for self-reflection....?"

We can but hope - but the repeated cycle so far has been "here is a stark warning - be it from other countries about the virus, or scotland about exams" and the government to do not only ignore them, but to promise their solution is better - until the inevitable uturn and resulting fallout

I think Johnson will go, and we will have another election before end of next year - because this lot are tempermentally and inherently ill-suited to the significant challenges faced.

[JohnL]

I think Johnson will go but no election except in the Tory party.

[uncleglen]

How predictable. I expect most of this BS was cut and pasted from some lefty rags.

Have you all forgotten we are in the midst of an unprecedented pandemic which , had China and the WHO been honest and pragmatic in the first place, would not have affected the whole WORLD (remember?- I thought you were all globalists!) and brought about this political fodder which has given you all carte blanche to knock Boris, the ELECTED PM and his ELECTED government.

[j.a.]

So just because someone is elected, they are beyond criticism?

If someone is elected, they should be allowed to do whatever they want? There?s a word for that...

Would you be saying the same if Corbyn had won?

(I know I said I was going to ignore you, but it?s actually fun to point out the massive gaping holes in your logic! 😉)

[TheCat]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How predictable. I expect most of this BS was cut

> and pasted from some lefty rags.

> Have you all forgotten we are in the midst of an

> unprecedented pandemic which , had China and the

> WHO been honest and pragmatic in the first place,

> would not have affected the whole WORLD

> (remember?- I thought you were all globalists!)

> and brought about this political fodder which has

> given you all carte blanche to knock Boris, the

> ELECTED PM and his ELECTED government.

Serioulsy? "How predictable"? From that well known 'lefty rag'...The Spectator. Furthermore, I dont think anyone on this focum would call me (who started this thread) a bleeding heart left winger....

In anycase, I would think both supporters and critics of this government can all agree that some of their decision making has been found wanting (irrespective of whether circumstances or personnel are the reason)...so any efforts to improve it should surely be welcomed... ?

[JohnL]

Sometimes I think Uncle has been winding up for all these years :)

[Sephiroth]

It's entirely possible glen is a windup merchant but my money is on him being real

I know it's comforting to think views like his are a fringe minority - but all you have to do is do a public facing job in a social environment (eg a newsagent) and you will see just how many people actually think like this

[Sephiroth]

"I think Johnson will go but no election except in the Tory party."

I think this opinion is more widespread

However, to back up my view I'm going to say

a) a party can't keep getting elected, ditching the leader within a year or two and embarking on a new program from election. If Johnson goes that will be 4th PM in 5 years

b) I think the risk assesment leaked this week is likely to be off in some ways and very much on in others - I think next year will be chaos and it will be apparent that the road travelled for last 4 years is now at an end - and no way we can stumble on until 2024. There will need to be a nationwide reassesment and a new election

And all of that without Scotland kicking off as an issue again

[Blah Blah]

I think Uncle calling TheCat a lefty (and welcome to the club btw Cat lol) is a perfect example of how anyone who does not agree with Herr Uncle is a lefty.

I'm not sure we'll see any election prematurely, because the Tory Party has such a healthy majority, that as long as they still have a reasonable amount of time in government, they will think they can get the party into a better electoral place. Change of leader however is always possible, although I would say there that the majority also makes Johnson rather untouchable, unless he majorly messes up. Cummings is the real PM anyway. He may well also be the fall guy in the end.

[TheCat]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think Uncle calling TheCat a lefty (and welcome

> to the club btw Cat lol) is a perfect example of

> how anyone who does not agree with Herr Uncle is a

> lefty.

>

Thanks...I can suddenly feel my hatred of poor people and immigrants leaving me, and replaced with a wonderful feeling of self-righteous moral superiority.....

(Before anyone gets wound up..ITS A JOKE!...and ive mocked both right and left stereotypes in equal measure)

[JohnL]

Cummings Father in Law leaks that Boris may step down

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-step-down-claim-denial-a4532556.html

Quote (from Cummings Sr) ?If you put a horse back to work when it?s injured, it will never recover,?. So its the knackers yard for Boris in six months then.