Liberals, Fascists and other things....

[Blah Blah]

Agree with all of that DR and think you are spot on. He has made a living out of being the political outrider. Without that, who is he? This is Farage being opportunistic again imo. If Trump loses the election tm, that will have a major impact on all sorts of things, not least the EU negotiations and a NI border issues. But Farage is miscalculating if he thinks that all those Tory voters who voted Brexit want the chaos of a no deal. A lot of them are deeply unhappy with the way the Boris and his government try to bypass Parliamentary scrutiny.

[TheCat]

While its possible (likely) that Farage is not the man to do it. I do believe there is space in the political landscape for a credible political force which can question the wisdom of locking-down, and offer some viable alternatives which MAY provide a better balance of acceptable risks to society at large.

At the moment all Labour are doing is saying they'd do lockdown too...but quicker, harder and better than the tories apparently.

The consensus view out there seems to be that the only effective tool in combating the virus is 'lockdown' in its various forms...and certainly evidence of the shambolic attempt at track and trace is quite supportive of that being the case.

But nonetheless, the cynic in me has no doubt that the 'science' (and specifically the scientists in question) favours lockdowns, as if you are an epidemiologist and run a multi-factor model on the virus spread - then what's going to make the R in your model go down the easiest?...simple....slashing your assumptions on interactions. And what slashes interactions the most...'lockdown'. But these models (as far as im aware) have no economic drivers or outputs which interact with the virus spread metrics to optimise the best solution across both a medical and economic basis.

The point is that surely there are other discussions to be had than just to shutdown or not shutdown. i.e. instead of the NEU's first reaction being 'schools should close too'.....is there not room for them to call for something like weekly or daily testing of all school-teachers?....(just as many medical staff are tested daily), or PPE for school teachers....they are both expensive suggestions im sure (are unions known for their sensible demands?)...but are they more expensive than the economic impact of shutting down schools? (not to mention the societal impacts)? In anycase...while they might be unworkable ideas (just examples, im not advocating them)...the point is that there must be other ideas which dont seem to be getting much attention in the mainstream as far as I can see....

[malumbu]

I worry about schools, and expect the rate and absences of staff and pupils to escalate in coming weeks. No matter how good hygiene and social distancing are, many older kids will mix as soon as they get out of the gates. Unions are clearly stronger and better at representing employees when there is high membership, which is almost universal in teaching. So feels understandable that the union wants to protect their members, one of the highest risk to Covid. That said yes it would be good to look at different models, I don't see teachers working behind screens, like at check-outs and on buses, but there could be a conversation about PPE.

[JohnL]

I actually hate lockdown - and that's whilst I have a job that I can work from home and saving money because I'm not going anywhere.

I still feel "cabin fever" (my life actually flashed before me the other day for real) but I can't see any other good option at the moment - once I see a good alternative I'll be the first to support it.

[TheCat]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I actually hate lockdown - and that's whilst I

> have a job that I can work from home and saving

> money because I'm not going anywhere.

>

> I still feel "cabin fever" (my life actually

> flashed before me the other day for real) but I

> can't see any other good option at the moment -

> once I see a good alternative I'll be the first to

> support it.

https://www.designboom.com/technology/biovyzr-personal-air-purifying-face-shield-05-03-2020/

[JohnL]

"the built-in purifying system filters pathogens, allergens, and pollutants from the air by using N-95 filtration."

WOW - No pollution from the traffic being discussed on other threads too - this is an excellent piece of kit. We'll all be wearing them by Christmas I predict.

[Blah Blah]

I am inclined to agree TheCat. There are different factions opposing lockdown but they are rudderless, with cranks trying to fill the void. Farage is probably gambling on the notion that he can be the sane voice on that side of the fence, pulling people together behind him into some kind of meaningful political consensus.

The other thing to factor in is that this is the first time a global pandemic is being addressed in this way. There is much discussion to be had around the role our stripped back services have played in the decisions made. Fear of overwhelming inadequate health resources etc. There are real opportunities here for genuine change for the better if a sensible debate can be had. But at the moment we are locked into a mindset that has never been the case in past pandemics. We need to understand why that is as much as anything else.

[malumbu]

Unless it is fed with clean air, it will not filter out most of the pollution. Nitrogen dioxide is a gas so can't be filtered out, nor removed with reagents like activated charcoal. The particle materials are very fine, less than 10 microns (PM 10) so will go through filters. Masks and face shields would only be good if you can actually see the pollution for example a fire and the occasional visible smoke coming out of a car (normally a sign that the equipment has broken or been tampered with). But very sci fi:

https://geekbloggeruk.wordpress.com/2019/07/14/have-you-seen-the-andromeda-strain/

[TheCat]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Unless it is fed with clean air, it will not

> filter out most of the pollution. Nitrogen

> dioxide is a gas so can't be filtered out, nor

> removed with reagents like activated charcoal.

> The particle materials are very fine, less than 10

> microns (PM 10) so will go through filters. Masks

> and face shields would only be good if you can

> actually see the pollution for example a fire and

> the occasional visible smoke coming out of a car

> (normally a sign that the equipment has broken or

> been tampered with). But very sci fi:

>

> https://geekbloggeruk.wordpress.com/2019/07/14/hav

> e-you-seen-the-andromeda-strain/

I guess there's a gap in the market for you to develop a face mask with a set of wet-NOx scrubbers then Malumbu:)

[malumbu]

No you need to use cow wee, that the basis of of the catalyst that reduces nitrogen dioxide to nitrogen in the catalysts of diesel cars. It may be a bit smelly and a funny USP - breath clean air with a tinge of ammonia

[JohnL]

Good to know Some of EDFs greatest are working on this :)

[malumbu]

In deed, although it is no longer manufactured from urine. I stated that because the petrol (or should I say diesel) heads refer to ad blue as cow or pig wee. It's a distraction from all the other stuff going on. https://www.commercialfuelsolutions.co.uk/is-AdBlue-pig-urine.html