Tighter restrictions/ second national lockdown aka circuit breaker?

[diable rouge]

As well as citing the economic factors of Covid and Brexit for their downgrading, Moody's also cited ''the weakening in the UK's institutions and governance'', i.e. a weakening of UK democracy. This Gov doesn't seem to realise that the rest of the world watches on as we willingly self-harm over Brexit, it didn't go unnoticed that this Gov stuck two-fingers up to democracy by unlawfully shutting down Parliament, and is now showing blatant contempt for international law with the Internal Markets Bill. Words and actions have consequences as we will find out a lot more come January...

[malumbu]

Good article on weakening of democracy and weakening of the union

https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/an-iconoclastic-government-former-dexeu-chief-philip-rycroft-on-the-threat-to-uk-democracy/

[diable rouge]

So the midday deadline has passed...

I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Greater Manchester

:)

#republikofmancunia

[Jules-and-Boo]

I hope everyone who voted for Boris is happy

[diable rouge]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I hope everyone who voted for Boris is happy

What did you expect when you voted for Brexit, that we'd end up with some cuddly, cutesy centrist Gov?...

[Alan Medic]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I hope everyone who voted for Boris is happy

>

> What did you expect when you voted for Brexit,

> that we'd end up with some cuddly, cutesy centrist

> Gov?...

I read that differently, as in sarcastic.

[diable rouge]

Afraid not, judging by all the pro-Brexit comments J&B has posted over the years...

ETA: Actually, J&B is being sarcastic, but I just find it a bit rich, sarcastic or otherwise, a Brexiter bemoaning a Brexiter PM and Gov...

[JohnL]

Figures don't look good - what's the bet for tier 4 - being total lockdown being rolled out sooner or later.

If Manchester ignore it the whole thing is a bit silly - will the army go in or a national police force.

[JohnL]

Listening to Boris's news conference - it does come across as dividing the country. He's using those that agree with him against those that don't. Seems to be a theme with this government.

[Jules-and-Boo]

You don't actually know who I voted for, whatever I may have posted on EDF overy the years..

I was being sarcastic. I didn't vote for Doris.

I did expect his personality to be resolute enough not to be taken for a ride by Europe but maybe politics causes people to become unreliable and unstable. And power corrupts.

And Brexit is not the issue I have. It's about our own internal establishment and ethics.

[malumbu]

Rate in Southwark about 10% higher than Lewisham, not surprised after a rare foray to Lordship Lane on Saturday, North Cross Road was like Rye Lane at 10 in the evening. I'll be staying this side of the border (southeast of East Dulwich) as it is safer. (Banter)

[NewWave]

I actually agree with the mayor of Manchester who described the Tier system of Boris's way of doing a 'cut price lockdown' If a city is in tier2 businesses are suffering (I see it in the west end-footfall has dropped considerably) but companies cant furlough their staff and get govt support.

Tier 3 is 'almost a lockdown' but isn't as non essential businesses can still trade but (not restaurants and bars to my understanding) but who is going to shop in these non essential stores?

I think the tier system is a cop out tbh and is very much dividing the country.

Personally I think we need a 2-4 week lockdown so that we can see some semblance of normality (as in 'The New Normal' by Christmas.

As it stands there is so much uncertainty will there be a lockdown? will we go to tier 3?

and also what are the damn rules for all these tiers?

I find it confusing and a little frightening that nobody actually seems to be in control they're just pussyfooting around which has the potential to cost more lives and more businesses.

We went into lockdown a couple of weeks too late in March, and I believe we came out of it a few weeks too early.

The fact we have the highest death rate in Europe (as far as I know) is because of the lamentable handling of this by our government.

How can I trust a government where a senior minister broke the rules in deepest lockdown and got away with it?

They continue to drink after 10 in the commons bar but let us lot all leave the pubs and restaurants in droves at the same time leading to overcrowding on the trains and streets.

[JohnL]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I did expect his personality to be resolute enough

> not to be taken for a ride by Europe but maybe

> politics causes people to become unreliable and

> unstable. And power corrupts.

>

> And Brexit is not the issue I have. It's about our

> own internal establishment and ethics.

Don't forget Boris's sister said in 2019 that he is behaving strangely and this was possibly due to the pressure from those near him who have financial investments in a no deal brexit.

If anyone knows him she does

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/boris-johnsons-sister-warns-pms-reprehensible-behaviour-may-be-due-to-bets-on-pound-plummeting-in-no-deal-crash-for-uk/27/09/

[JohnL]

Jenrick saying he told Burnham before that moment the mayors of the north all discovered the loss of 38 million.

Somehow I don't believe him and he should sort out cladding and leasehold.

[JohnL]

Is the attached a loophole or planned - if you're on a business meeting you can break the covid rules apparently and many pubs are now posting similar.

[Sue]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Is the attached a loophole or planned - if you're

> on a business meeting you can break the covid

> rules apparently and many pubs are now posting

> similar.

>

>

> 32204549

That doesn't sound right to me.

Why would it be necessary to hold a business meeting in a pub?

If it's true, I feel several business meetings coming on ..... Goose meetings ...... :)) :)) :))

[Jules-and-Boo]

You just have to listen to the lies Boris is spouting about Sadiq and the damage his conditions will have on everyone in London....

Or, we still like him?

[Blah Blah]

The attacks on Sadiq will ramp up as the Mayoral Election approaches. The squabble on Tfl may well be used for political gain by the Tory candidate, even though transport in London has always been subsidised and you don't have to be the brightest button in the box to understand the loss of revenue from the pandemic reducing use. It strikes me as though Boris is deliberately trying to force Sadiq to raise local taxes in order to have something to attack him on.

But there is also a sense of history repeating, with a central Tory government coming to loggerheads with elected Labour regional leaders over money. Is this the GLA and Liverpool council all over again? Thatcher's solution was to abolish regional government. We really are going to see fireworks I think when government begins the process of paying off the debt. Councils and the public sector have already been stripped back to the bone on central funding during Austerity Round 1. There is no room for further savings there.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Indeed. It's shameful.

[diable rouge]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You don't actually know who I voted for, whatever

> I may have posted on EDF overy the years..

> I was being sarcastic. I didn't vote for Doris.

>

> I did expect his personality to be resolute enough

> not to be taken for a ride by Europe but maybe

> politics causes people to become unreliable and

> unstable. And power corrupts.

>

> And Brexit is not the issue I have. It's about our

> own internal establishment and ethics.

Whether you could be bothered to vote for Brexit or not on the day, your pro-Brexit views are clear, and therefore my point still stands. Without Brexit there would be no Johnson Gov. You might want to separate Brexit from this Gov and it's actions and ethics to soothe your conscience, but the two are intrinsically entwined. We literally have a Vote Leave Gov...

[Jules-and-Boo]

this isn't about me (although I forgot how the forum likes to make it personal)

There is a lot more going on that is damaging than brexit.

[malumbu]

Hmmm, going back a post:

1. If the TUC had supported the wage constraints in 1978 there would have been no Thatcher in 1979

2. If there had been no Falklands War there would be no Thatcher in 1983 and we would have had the experiment of the third way (the SDP)

3. If Kinnock hadn't celebrated winning the election before the day we wouldn't have had Major in, in 1992

4. If the great John Smith hadn't passed away too early we wouldn't have had a Blair government in 1997

5. If Gordon Brown had called an early election we may not have had a coalition government in 2010

6. If the Lib Dems had been a bit less spineless we may not have had a Tory majority in, in 2015

7. If Labour had got the right brother (David not Ed) we would have had a Labour government in 2015

8. If May hadn't been stabbed in the back, and had reached out to the Labour party to get them onside we wouldn't have had a hard Brexit not would we have BoJo in power

9. If Sadiq Khan hadn't proposed Corbyn we may well have a Labour goverment

10. If Corbyn hadn't played a blinder in 2017 coupled with a disaster by May she would have had a majority and may have been able to put the Brexiteers in their place

It goes on and on. Appeasement of Adolf Hitler anyone, Edward VIII and many of the ruling class?

[Blah Blah]

I think you illustrate perfectly how politics is often defined by the wrong decision being made, usually by people who are blinded by their own limitations and/or ambition. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course, but outcomes are more often than not, predictable too.

[diable rouge]

Exactly BB, it's the predictability of Brexit that makes it more unique than all those events cited above. Life, as well as politics, is full of ifs, buts, maybes, and sliding doors moments, but from the beginning Brexit was always a right-wing, nationalist, power grab project, so no one should be surprised we've ended up with a right-wing, nationalist, power grab Gov...

[malumbu]

I'll summarise that (Brexit) in one word. Unnecessary.