Worries about Brexit, Anyone worried ??

[Ossito]

It will be interesting to see how long the media?s sense of a ?truce? on EU politics lasts.

There?s a deal to be done on Financial Services in the first quarter of the year. Quite likely lots of discussions then about a framework for recognition of professional qualifications. Elections in Scotland in May and whatever that brings. The complexities of the Northern Ireland arrangements to emerge, and the ongoing potential for a referendum under the GFA. The detailed negotiation of political principles into a full Treaty on Gibraltar. The potential threat of tariffs when the Govt proposes a shift away from the level playing field principles. Which industry will they risk imposing tariffs on to do that, and how vocal will that industry be?

Whilst we won?t go back to what we had, my instinct is that we are moving towards a Swiss style model of ongoing negotiations with the EU about specific issues as we try to skirt around the full acquis whilst trying to mitigate the economic and political implications. That should bring many opportunities for the younger generations to start influencing where the debate goes next.

Gosh, even David Davies was commenting on Sky News last night that it is inevitable that countries have to sacrifice the much vaunted ?sovereignty? to gain mutual benefits from each other. I nearly choked on my New Year?s champagne...

[legalalien]

As someone who grew up outside the EU and now lives here (and who travelled about a bit in my youth / studied at a UK uni), I think we need to stop talking ourselves into the idea of a "catastrophic loss of opportunities for youngsters" thing. Young people from non-EU countries do plenty of travelling, studying and working abroad both within and outside the EU. As it stands, I read somewhere the other day that more UK students study at tertiary level in the US plus Australia, than in the EU countries combined. Yes, there might be a few more forms to fill, but there will still be opportunities out there...

[TheCat]

legalalien Wrote:

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> As someone who grew up outside the EU and now

> lives here (and who travelled about a bit in my

> youth / studied at a UK uni), I think we need to

> stop talking ourselves into the idea of a

> "catastrophic loss of opportunities for

> youngsters" thing. Young people from non-EU

> countries do plenty of travelling, studying and

> working abroad both within and outside the EU. As

> it stands, I read somewhere the other day that

> more UK students study at tertiary level in the US

> plus Australia, than in the EU countries combined.

> Yes, there might be a few more forms to fill, but

> there will still be opportunities out there...

Agreed. This is almost verbatim what I said on another thread..the stats I quoted in that post showed that more UK citizens live in australia alone than in the entire EU combined. Furthermore, the EU is not 'cutoff' (covid restrictions aside), it is just a little more challenging. This wailing loss of opportunity is just hysteria. Annoyance that it's slightly more tricky, I'll concede...but opportunity lost, not so much.

[Ossito]

The debate for now - which young people should be heard in - is what is the vision for a post-Brexit UK? Something that, beyond tokenistic slogans, is still not forthcoming from politicians in any detail.

Do we continue to have a broadly European model with strong investment in public services, high environmental and social standards etc., or does a different model closer aligned to the US, Singapore or others emerge and take hold amongst the Conservative party.

I don?t see the additional annoyances and costs of, say, studying in Europe being the priority focus for younger generations in the near term. If there is a fundamental shift to a different political and economic model, then any return to closer alignment in the next 50 years would quickly ebb away.

[TheCat]

Fair comment.

The US innovates, Asia duplicates and Europe regulates.

As the old business idiot goes.

Let's hope we try for something in the middle of some of those....

[JohnL]

Ossito Wrote:

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> The debate for now - which young people should be

> heard in - is what is the vision for a post-Brexit

> UK? Something that, beyond tokenistic slogans, is

> still not forthcoming from politicians in any

> detail.

>

> Do we continue to have a broadly European model

> with strong investment in public services, high

> environmental and social standards etc., or does a

> different model closer aligned to the US,

> Singapore or others emerge and take hold amongst

> the Conservative party.

>

> I don?t see the additional annoyances and costs

> of, say, studying in Europe being the priority

> focus for younger generations in the near term. If

> there is a fundamental shift to a different

> political and economic model, then any return to

> closer alignment in the next 50 years would

> quickly ebb away.

Hmm

When you hear a benefit of redundancy is continued healthcare for 3 months it chills you a bit living with the NHS all your life.

[JohnL]

TheCat Wrote:

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> Fair comment.

>

> The US innovates, Asia duplicates and Europe

> regulates.

>

> As the old business idiot goes.

>

> Let's hope we try for something in the middle of

> some of those....

Shows how old I am - UK was the innovative one when I was young and the US took those ideas and scaled them up.

"Made in Japan" was ridiculed as cheap LOL

[TheCat]

JohnL Wrote:

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> TheCat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Fair comment.

> >

> > The US innovates, Asia duplicates and Europe

> > regulates.

> >

> > As the old business idiot goes.

> >

> > Let's hope we try for something in the middle

> of

> > some of those....

>

> Shows how old I am - UK was the innovative one

> when I was young and the US took those ideas and

> scaled them up.

>

> "Made in Japan" was ridiculed as cheap LOL

Ha...I may have exaggerated when I labelled it an 'old' idiom....let's call it middle-aged....perhaps about 47 year old;)....

[KidKruger]

Me too !!

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> DF may not want to go anywhere, but I see

> Johnson's father is taking up French citizenship.

[ianr]

KidKruger wrote:

-----------------

> Alan Medic wrote:

> ------------------

>> DF may not want to go anywhere, but I

>> see Johnson's father is taking up

>> French citizenship.

> Me too !!

You are taking up French citizenship?

[ianr]

JohnL wrote:

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> "Made in Japan" was ridiculed as cheap

Can you remind me of some examples?

[DulwichFox]

I've been to many European places many times..

France .. Germany .. Belgium ... Netherlands ... Italy.. Austria.. Spain.. Portugal..

Greek Islands. Corfu .. Poros.. Paros.. Naxos.. Ios.. Santorini.. Mykinos .. Crete.. Kos ..

Outside Europe

Turkey.. Marmaris.. (10 times) Fetiye.. Altinkum.. Alanya... Kusudasi ... Olu Deniz..

Went to college 2000 - 2002 to learn Turkish Language

I considered moving to Turkey in 2014 2015 but in 2016 after 30 years of travel to Turkey there was a Coup

I had to abandon my plans.

So I am well traveled.. A lot of it before the E.U.

At one time limited to ?20. cash spending money. (for 2 weeks)

Now Too Old .. Tired .. Unwell.. Poor sighted..

Foxy

[KidKruger]

If possible, yes.

Born there.

ianr Wrote:

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> KidKruger wrote:

> -----------------

> > Alan Medic wrote:

> > ------------------

> >> DF may not want to go anywhere, but I

> >> see Johnson's father is taking up

> >> French citizenship.

>

> > Me too !!

>

> You are taking up French citizenship?

[Blah Blah]

Yeslovewhatcanigetu Wrote:

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> Brexit is about emotion, not any rational or

> objective thought process. For most people life

> will go on pretty much as it was before, with

> slightly more bureaucracy when they go on their

> summer holidays. Meanwhile, as we realise that

> we?ve cut ourselves off from the world more than

> is good for us, we?ll drift closer back towards

> Europe. We?re European, they?re our closest

> neighbours - this is just the beginning of the

> next chapter and nowhere near the end of the

> story.

Exactly this. Brexit is indeed a notion. The practical realities of economic health are what will determine any future re-entry, or push for re-entry. Right now is too early to tell and on that leave voters are right. We are in a de facto transition while business and the economy adjusts. How long that transition takes is unknown. The question for me is, as it has always been, how patient will a public be in waiting for promised sunlit uplands, and that leveling up? They are not going to wait decades for it, that is for sure, and it will be the younger generations that decide the future. They are overwhelmingly pro EU. So not a question of if, but when we return, as I see it.

[Blah Blah]

Trinnydad Wrote:

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> Are you aspiring to be the lead member of a

> self-appointed forum mafia intent on suppressing

> views that don't align with yours?

Oh do grow up. It is quite clear I am now your no.1 target for whiny trolling. Pathetic.

[Blah Blah]

The general conversation about the direction the UK takes is the key point now. There are lots of good reasons for not wanting to be the USA or Singapore, especially if you are a low paid worker. The Tory party have to be careful here. They won the election in part by promising better living standards to whole regions of disenfranchised people, regions which had benefited from EU investment. I just do not trust, nor see how the Tories are going to deliver on that promise. Even New Labour failed to address that disenfranchisement in meaningful ways. So that will be the litmus test I think.

[JohnL]

This morning Sky News reported (source I don't know) that some would be happy with a leveling down of London and the South East.

[Trinnydad]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> Oh do grow up. It is quite clear I am now your

> no.1 target for whiny trolling. Pathetic.

Some habits are difficult to give up, I see.

[Blah Blah]

And now the troll proves my point perfectly ;)

[JohnL]

ianr Wrote:

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> JohnL wrote:

> -----------

> > "Made in Japan" was ridiculed as cheap

>

> Can you remind me of some examples?

It was long long ago but Datsun comes to mind - but it was everything in the 1970s

Edit: Of course my dad worked for British Steel and I grew up with every Datsun being mocked as my dad passed it in his MARINA :)

[JohnL]

One serious point on this - One of our Councillors is quite active against primary teachers returning to school on the 4th (he seems to have won this point as primary teachers in London won't be returning for 2 weeks at least).

I think there is a difference on this point since the virus mutated but seems to be a lot of argument and the government don't want to postpone term but it seems they have to.