Sunlit uplands. Are we there yet?

[Seabag]

Dairy is going well...

Erm....maybe not

https://www.farminguk.com/news/uk-dairy-exports-to-eu-plunged-96-in-january_57817.html

Sales of milk and cream to the EU are down an extraordinary 96 per cent ? and chicken and beef by almost 80 per cent ? because of Brexit, new figures show.

Overall, the trade barriers erected in Boris Johnson?s deal have cost exporters more than ?1.1bn since the start of the year, The Food and Drink Federation says.

[snowy]

So The Cat didn?t get the cream?

[TheCat]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dairy is going well...

>

> Erm....maybe not

>

>

> https://www.farminguk.com/news/uk-dairy-exports-to

> -eu-plunged-96-in-january_57817.html

>

> Sales of milk and cream to the EU are down an

> extraordinary 96 per cent ? and chicken and beef

> by almost 80 per cent ? because of Brexit, new

> figures show.

>

> Overall, the trade barriers erected in Boris

> Johnson?s deal have cost exporters more than

> ?1.1bn since the start of the year, The Food and

> Drink Federation says.

Im surprised you've posted a link to an article which quotes analysis that clearly concludes that Brexit is NOT the main cause of fall in dairy volume exports in January....perhaps you're coming around to the whole idea?:)

[TheCat]

snowy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So The Cat didn?t get the cream?

Perhaps not. The Cat did actually read the article past the headline though.

[malumbu]

Worth quoting from the article:

This drop in trade will partly be the result of added difficulties and costs associated with trading with the EU, particularly for fresh milk and cream," Ms Clayton said.

"However, lower demand due to the pandemic, combined with issues around availability of shipping containers, has been the main reason for lower shipments.

"This can be seen in the drop off in exports to non-EU markets, which were down 27% over the same 4-month period

[Sephiroth]

The people quoted in this article. I mean really

Why is it bad form to call them dim? What other word would be appropriate?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1437009/brexit-news-latest-spain-visa-europe-summer-holidays-british-expats-eu-tourism-latest

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The people quoted in this article. I mean really

>

> Why is it bad form to call them dim? What other

> word would be appropriate?

>

> https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1437009/brexit-n

> ews-latest-spain-visa-europe-summer-holidays-briti

> sh-expats-eu-tourism-latest

This sort of thing definitely irritates me, and gives credence to the ill-informed charactiture of leave voters...

Some may be surprised...I agree with Sephiroth's sentiment (if not his language!..I'm pretty averse to labelling people's intelligence in general)...if you weren't aware that not being in the EU meant you need a visa to spend more then 3 months of the year there, then that is a rather large oversight on your behalf.....

Mind you....the express is trumpeting 'hundreds' of people who seem upset...so hopefully a small minority...

[Sephiroth]

The fact that this is only dawning on them now, 5 years into the whole thing speaks badly of an Education system

And Media

Are they small in number, people who think like this?

My guess is no. The whole thing was promised on lies of nothing changing, all winning. This is brits on holiday - but it applies to fishing, Northern Ireland and rest of it

[Sephiroth]

The main thing to note with these people is this

Are they cross with the people who lied to them?

Nope

They are the same fertile ground for anti-eu propaganda and sentiment they always were

If I were a progressive sort, who wanted Brexit, I would be worried about where such misplaced anger might lead us

[diable rouge]

''Why is it bad form to call them dim? What other word would be appropriate?''

I felt the same when I saw a BBC post-Hartlepool vox pop video, people lining up to criticise Labour for the area not having enough bobbies, no police cells, and no court.

It's as if 11 years of Tories in Gov and their austerity cuts had never happened...

[Earl Aelfheah]

I wonder whether it's more to do with tight vs loose cultures. The former is more likely to develop in areas, or situations where people feel higher levels of threat / less secure. If things where you lived had been in decline for a long time, you might see things through a different lens - one that where you're better disposed to promises of control, order, rules and a reduction in freedoms.

We like to think we're all really rational and make good choices, but we're heavily influenced by the situation we find ourselves in and cognitive forces which we're barely conscious of.

[Sephiroth]

way too much is forgiven by "left behind/in decline"

Arguably, Scotland and NI have greater levels of poverty etc, but they are clear-minded about the perils of brexit (including knowing the Tories have been in power for 11 years and UK has lost ability to travel freely)

[Sephiroth]

Some, ostensibly, less dim people here but the same head scratching abounds

And this last sentence - satire surely?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/your-90-days-are-up-europe-tells-holiday-home-britons-76wqjpjq9

[diable rouge]

Just had to pay some 'import fees' on an Amazon purchase to the EU, adding around 20% to the bill...thanks Brexit!

[Earl Aelfheah]

Less sunlit uplands, more the uplands pub circa 2000

[TheCat]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Less sunlit uplands, more the uplands pub circa

> 2000

And similarly, the UK will evolve.....although perhaps with less focus on wood-fired pizza in this case...

[Alan Medic]

Excellent read for Brexiteers.........

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/englands-dreaming.html

[TheCat]

I actually read this earier today. Unfort, despite the authors many degrees and academic titles, this piece is very 'rant-heavy' as opposed to 'analysis-heavy'. Fair enough, its his personal blog, but I dont really glean much more from it than I do from the good remain-loving people of the EDF:)

I mean when he uses statements like..."In short, Brexit is turning out to be exactly the mess that was predicted, and for exactly the reasons predicted. If anything, it is proving worse"...that is objectively garbage...predictions from people like Chris Grey were significantly worse than where we are at. Apart from the NIP, which i'll agree appears unworkable sustainably, Brexit 5 months in bears very little similarity to the apocalyptic forecasts of the past 5 years...Happy to be directed to the economic or trade data which worse than expected, if im mistaken.

He bemoans the desperate search for Brexit benefits.....which is perhaps not wildly dissimilar from some remainers desperate search for Brexit's failure....

[Sephiroth]

EU nationals in prison like conditions when held at border

Fishermen under a bus

Farmers heading same way

Apocalyptic forecast were based on many criteria - one of them being no deal. But a deal (of sorts) was reached

Many of the elements of that deal have yet to be implemented on the UK side - so we shall see

I'm delighted the very worst predictions haven't come to pass

I'm still massively upset that so many problems have manifested themselves only to be waved away

[Alan Medic]

Desperate search for Brexit's failures? Jeez, if the NIP doesn't work then Brexit is an 100% failure. Many of us predicted that NI would cause it to fail. That's apart from all the other failing elements. The UK government are having to employ someone to point out the feckin' 'benefits' of Brexit, they are so hidden.

[diable rouge]

The Brexiter default position is always to say ''it's not as bad as the apocalyptic predictions'' (ignoring they were based on No Deal) as if that somehow justifies its failings up to now.

Brexit is one long exercise in deflection, witness Frost's recent gaslighting and airbrushing of how the NIP came about.

They will never own their crock of cack...

[Sephiroth]

plus a lot of the impact has been masked by COVID and various issues arising

We didn't hear much about Brits losing freedom of movement rights for a year - but now we have people flying to Portugal and the UK press are howling about spiteful Europeans picking on Brits with "new" rules

And that's only going to get worse (in both senses - a) more people will be affected as more flights resumed b) the self-entitled whining about the exact impacts of what was told - not only were such warnings dismissed originally, they are now even not even referenced - it's just simple Brits being picked on)

the lack of learning from events is astonishing

[TheCat]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Brexiter default position is always to say

> ''it's not as bad as the apocalyptic predictions''

> (ignoring they were based on No Deal) as if that

> somehow justifies its failings up to now.

>

Revisionism in action. Yes sometimes they were based on No Deal. But with a straight face, you're going to tell me that most remain commentators would have said....'If we leave with a deal, then we might have modest impact on trade, particularly in the early months as we work through some teething issues, but I'd expect trade to bounce back towards pre-bexit levels within 2-3 months".....umm...I dont think so.

You talk about ownership....why shouldn't remainers take ownership of the fact that many of their predictions of economic disaster were totally and utterly wrong?...crashing property/asset prices, flight of FDI, 100,000 jobs from the CITY moving to europe, food and medical shortages (yes the worst predictions on that front were indeed focussed on No Deal, but these things were being discussed as feature of all deal outcomes).

That doesn't excuse its failings...there are of course problems and challenges...but I think most serious economists would agree that they've been surprised by the resilience in trade YTD. In discussing the widely trumpeted Treasurey report from May 2016 that many remainers use as the cornerstone of their view of 'diaster'....even the strongly pro-remain Financial Times economics editor now admits that these forecasts were politically motivated saying ?after all, they had a referendum to win?....

[Sephiroth]

"towards" is doing a lot of work there

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "towards" is doing a lot of work there

Ha fair. First rule of debate....never box yourself into a corner with 'absolute' language....