The Disunited Kingdom

[Seabag]

In an ideal world the Queen would chop Johnson?s head off.

I?m sure there?s an ancient law to enact that.

[malumbu]

Public executions? Now that would please the traditionalists. And the Home Sec would think it was an excellent deterrent.

[JohnL]

The latest in the culture war is flags - I'm never really going to support flying the British flag in political situations as I come from a time when we said only countries with little confidence in themselves did that (and yes at that time it was blatantly a nudge nudge wink wink look down at the US) - strange how that same attitude is now disparaged and all ministers need a flag and/or a portrait of the Queen.

I do tend to fly the Welsh flag which seems different as it's not really political even though the Welsh Government uses it - the whole country owns it.

[Seabag]

I have a portrait of the Queen in the toilet of my caravan, so when I?m sat on the throne she?s looking on

I feel so proud of the country I?ve found myself living in, the thought we?re a sovereign Island, as I pull 3 sheets of pink Andrex over my sphincter. I?m wondering ?what next for the empire??

Obvs I?m humming God Save The Queen

[malumbu]

Love reference to flags which I have picked up on several threads. The first time during the early days of lockdown was when I referred to the briefings and the use of flags/emblems and the third Reich, and the National Front. This was supposed to be a heavy handed comparison. The lounge was very active at the time and many posters have disappeared, but the derision that I got. Good to see that there a are like minded people. Hugh Dennis got it right when comparing the current thing for having union flags behind you as being in a scout hut.

I don't 'hate' the flag, but we are not a flag flying nation. It just doesn't matter to most of us. We don't have flag poles in our garden. My main experience was in deed in the scout/guide hut and monthly church parade. It's quite nice to see the flag when we win at the Olympic Games. I have more time for our continental cousins, who may fly their regional flag, national flag and the EU flag, being proud of all three (perhaps that is where we went wrong).

Oh dear, you have got me started. But the press conferences do wind me up.

The BBC Breakfast piece was hilarious and Jenrick took it the right way. Warning Gammon alert (see the comments in the Standard) https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-breakfast-union-jack-flag-b925080.html#comments-area

The Mirror's readers comments are more balanced and some quite fun. Someone suggested it was upside down. That is worse than passing the port the wrong way.

[TheCat]

I would think the upset here is about the brazeness of the challenge about flags. I mean I agree with the sentiment....who gives a rats arse, and also who gives one about whether people love flags or not. But to feel emboldened enough on national television to mock someone being 'patriotic' (a minister of the realm no less) I think is the issue. It smacks of smugness.....

[alex_b]

I thought they were mocking the escalating performative and escalating patriotism of Conservative politicians. Historically British patriotism has been restrained, flags popping up indoors (in ministers homes during lockdown) and on suits in ever increasing numbers for me looks insincere and gauche. As has been said before, growing up in the UK I don?t think I saw a Union flag indoors except in the scout hut or at church parade.

On a more serious note, wrapping themselves in the flag is a way for this government to imply everyone who opposes them is a traitor. They did that with Brexit and they?re realised it?s successful so they?re ramping it up.

[TheCat]

Interesting. Having not grown up here. I understand the cynicism wrapped up with the flag stuff. But there are so very many things to have a pop at the govt about, this seems very self indulgent.....

[TheCat]

alex_b Wrote:

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> I thought they were mocking the escalating

> performative and escalating patriotism of

> Conservative politicians.

They were. But is that appropriate to do on their forum.....?

[alex_b]

That kind of gentle mocking on a light hearted magazine breakfast show would have been fine a few years ago with the politician likely playing along to show how ?normal? they were. This confected culture war is swallowing up the norms of behaviour I grew up with. See for example Mrs Merton (Caroline Ahern) interviewing Debbie McGee or Clive Anderson?s BeeGees interview. In both cases the public and press were firmly on the side of the interviewer.

[Seabag]

Plenty of flag w4nk going on here. ?2.6 million pounds worth of what quite frankly looks like a room designed by Donald Trump.

What a great country we?re getting built for us, so glad the experts and elites aren?t running it now, like imagine.

https://apple.news/ApKBGox8LT6y-kydwm6-7dw

*hums rule Britannia with a comb and that Izal bog paper folded over it

[diable rouge]

That Briefing Room design really is a pile of pish, for that amount of money they could've at least given us a war room map table complete with Dad's Army style graphics, so we could have daily updates showing how plucky little England is fighting of the advancing EU hordes...

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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> I do tend to fly the Welsh flag which seems

> different as it's not really political even though

> the Welsh Government uses it - the whole country

> owns it.

Huw's on the case...

[JohnL]

Huw Edwards got told to take that down - but that just made it go viral as you can tell it's a nice photo and flag :)

[Seabag]

Seems Nicola didn?t intentionally mislead parliament

So on we go

[Seabag]

In other news, Boris on his ?when in power? spending spree finds ?900k to paint a plane ✈️

https://apple.news/AxhrPhqsxSJq0eWRbdQweVA

This fcuking flag obsession is tiresome

[JohnL]

Seabag Wrote:

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> Seems Nicola didn?t intentionally mislead

> parliament

>

> So on we go

Operation "Get Nicola" has had to go back to the drawing board.

On Sky News this morning Ian Blackford to Sky Niall "I heard you speaking to your studio this morning saying you were going to give me a kicking"

But he looks like butter couldn't melt in his mouth

[diable rouge]

A long read but goes into detail (if only Brexit had done likewise) about the pros and cons of an Indy Scotland rejoining the EU... https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/scotland_eu_border.pdf

[diable rouge]

I expected the SNP to throw a lot of Brexit-style campaigning back in Johnson's face, but I didn't think they would come up with an identical ''there'll be no border'' wheeze...https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1386250665614352387

[Sephiroth]

aye - people should be free to vote for what they want, but not in the face of, or on the basis of absolutely obvious falsehoods like this

[Alan Medic]

But she didn't actually say there wouldn't be a border, did she? She spoke about putting in place 'arrangements'? Vague, I know. But if they are going to put to the Scottish people what Independence and EU membership might mean, prior to a referendum, the SNP will have to define what exactly 'arrangements' might mean.

[Sephiroth]

so, much as per pre-Brexit referendum then

"don't worry we will work something out. Some arrangements"

so - borders then?

"No no - no-one wants borders. We will have arrangements"

The people pushing for the split can't be in denial about what the split means. Just because she isn't saying "border" doesn't mean that they won't happen

Essentially, she is making same mistake as Leavers - making promises about something that isn't in their control

[KidKruger]

?Essentially, she is making same mistake as Leavers - making promises about something that isn't in their control.?

Unfortunately, only a mistake if she?s/they?re interested in being honest about the future prospects around borders.

If lies/bluster worked for the UK Govt, why not SNP ?!

Tell them what they?d like to hear and win their support, delivery on promises being irrelevant.

The only hope is the Scots not being as gullible as the English, having witnessed how they got scammed.

[Alan Medic]

There would have to be a border. It's as simple as that. The SNP won't be able to hide that fact until after a referendum. Hopefully the electorate will be better informed going in to one than people were for the EU referendum. Then it's down to what the people there want more, independence or status quo.

[diable rouge]

A border will only be required if an independent Scotland later joined the EU, until then there wouldn't be a need for one, unless one side went all Trumpy.

If lies/bluster worked for the UK Govt, why not SNP ?!

This is the crux of the problem that Johnson faces, he will find it hard to argue against the same dogma/tactics used by his own Vote Leave campaign. And as he is finding out with Cummings, it's alright when your fellow duplicitous liars are on your side, but what happens when they're not. All populists eventually become unpopular...