The Disunited Kingdom

[TheCat]

Both sides are arguing and disagreeing about who's adhering to the agreement properly or not. That's typically how these things work, both sides push the envelope as I said.

It's informative that you automatically assume that the EU is doing the right thing, and the UK is at fault.

Can't really have much of a productive discussion when that's the default position you start from on any dispute.

Also....this line of argument that people who voted leave are all now 'surprised' the UK is being treated like a third country is growing tiresome. Yes, the UK is a third country as far as the EU is concerned...that will sometimes involve disputes, arguments and (hopefully) resolutions, as it does between any nations who are not in a customs union (I.e. most nations on earth)...that's not a suprise.

[JohnL]

Africa and Asia are gradually creating the supra national bodies for custom unions etc.

West Africa http://www.uemoa.int/en/about-uemoa, South Africa https://www.sacu.int/, East Africa https://www.eac.int/customs-union, North Africa https://maghrebarabe.org/, South East Asia https://asean.org/

Its the direction of travel though - most are heading towards furthest local integration whilst we are moving away from that.

[Sephiroth]

You were the one the brought the fishing dispute into a discussion about how EU citizens are shamefully treated in UK

Most nations have trade agreements based on a willingness to give up some sovereignty to gain advantage (with relative power playing a part)

UK has spent most of it's time doing the opposite and won't countenance ANY ceding of sovereignty - especially involving EU. SO the problems are not going away any time soon

I didn't say the EU is doing the right thing - I said the French were well within their rights

[Earl Aelfheah]

I really don't want to see Scotland leave the UK, just as I didn't want to see the UK leave the EU. But I think it's kind of inevitable that eventually Ireland will be reunited and Scotland will assert independence. I hope I'm wrong, but I can see years of slow decline ahead of us as a result of Brexit. I suspect our children's generation will not look back kindly on what has happened under our watch.

[JohnL]

I see perhaps a federal system if Scotland doesn't leave.

If you really have 4 equal countries then one can't make all the decisions.

[Sephiroth]

on subject of fishing - the recent Jersey brouhaha summarised well here:

https://unherd.com/thepost/ceasefire-declared-in-the-great-jersey-france-whelk-war/

[alex_b]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I see perhaps a federal system if Scotland doesn't

> leave.

>

> If you really have 4 equal countries then one

> can't make all the decisions.

It?s hard to have four equal countries if one is ten times the size of the others.

[TheCat]

alex_b Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I see perhaps a federal system if Scotland

> doesn't

> > leave.

> >

> > If you really have 4 equal countries then one

> > can't make all the decisions.

>

> It?s hard to have four equal countries if one is

> ten times the size of the others.

Absolutely, you cant have a federalized model with England being so much larger than the other parts of the UK....just not sustainable. Even with English devolvement being a feature...I just cant see it working effectively.

Perhaps you could split England up 'Game of Thrones' style.....i.e. The North etc etc...I thin Boris might fancy himself as King of the Seven Kingdoms, first of his name, protector of the realm:)

[Earl Aelfheah]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> alex_b Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > JohnL Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I see perhaps a federal system if Scotland

> > doesn't

> > > leave.

> > >

> > > If you really have 4 equal countries then one

> > > can't make all the decisions.

> >

> > It?s hard to have four equal countries if one

> is

> > ten times the size of the others.

>

>

> Absolutely, you cant have a federalized model with

> England being so much larger than the other parts

> of the UK....just not sustainable. Even with

> English devolvement being a feature...I just cant

> see it working effectively.

>

> Perhaps you could split England up 'Game of

> Thrones' style.....i.e. The North etc etc...I thin

> Boris might fancy himself as King of the Seven

> Kingdoms, first of his name, protector of the

> realm:)

This is actually not a bad idea. Federal states of Wales, N Ireland, Scotland, Westcountry, The North, London, and herebedragons