Please help the campaign Fair Air for East Dulwich

[Penguin68]

Thereby, the polluters pay for the damage that they are causing and they themselves tip the scales to more people using public transport and active travel.

Accepting a 'polluters pay' principle - how are you going to charge out to those with wood burning stoves - substantially more polluting, per household, than owning and using a diesel car? I mean, practically how?

And a 'polluters pay' mindset means that those who can afford to pollute will do so, justified in doing so that they are 'paying' for this transgression. As those who fly all over the world feel justified in doing so if they pay some form of carbon levy.

What this leads to is a concept that the wealthy can pollute, because they are 'paying' to do so. That what you're looking for?

And I wouldn't hold your breathe. locally, for improvements in public transport. We're not getting the tube down our way, and bus services have, if anything, reduced over time. Indeed the change in work patterns probably means that as revenues tumble for public transport (as it's less used) services will actually reduce/ have to reduce. Or taxation - increasingly on those not using public transport (much) will increase to subsidise the few still using it.

[Jellybeanz]

If anyone wants to get involved in the LTN consultation, Southwark should have written to you or posted a flyer.

Register here: www.southwark.gov.uk/dulwichreviewreg

[SE22_2020er]

Hi Penguin68

To your question of whether this is what I'm looking for, then yes. My personal desire is to see a lot less cars on the road (I ought to declare an interest that I am a keen cyclist and try and avoid car travel wherever possible) and specifically those that pollute more significantly. Therefore, differential taxation for those who pollute via a weighted congestion charge or ULEZ is in my opinion the best way to do this. I expect that we'll see the price and pollution thresholds for the ULEZ to be ratcheted over the coming years. I think that this is a good thing

I'd be keen to understand what practical alternative you'd put in place (assuming that something needs to be done!)

As to your question of wood burning stoves, I would put them in the category of things that probably should be banned in metropolitan areas, unless there is a real need for people to have them that I don't understand?

I don't agree with your argument that taxing pollution leads to a concept that polluting is acceptable. I do agree that it is obviously easier for wealthy people to pay for the tax but if that results in 'the wealthy' being taxed more to provide better public transport then I am broadly in support of it.

No proposal will ever be perfect, but hopefully would be better than the status quo, and it's a case of choosing the one that has the best impact over the others.

[Rockets]

And what about those who order goods that are shipped on cargo ships that can, in one journey, put out more pollution than all the cars in a single country? Would you agree that this would need to carry a pollution tax of sorts?

SE22_2020er - you acknowledge that public transport needs improving. Would you agree then that the council has put the cart before the horse with these LTN measures? That they cannot possibly have the desired effect if people do not have the public transport options to move away from the car.

I would like to see means-tested road pricing brought in so that it is fair on everyone.

[SE22_2020er]

@Rockets - several questions that you've asked me there. I'm happy to reply to them but I'm afraid that I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth type conversation with you as I have a young family and don't have the time (or inclination) to post frequently. However, if you'd like to PM me, perhaps we could agree to meet up and have a socially distanced walk to set the world to rights when things open up.

Shipping and tax:

I'm not aware of the statistics showing 1 cargo trip producing more pollution than all cars in a single country (and you've not given a timescale for the car pollution and the size of the country - (so if 1 nanosecond's car journey in The Vatican City , then you're probably right, and if 1 years worth of car journeys in the USA then I suspect you're probably wrong).

But in essence yes - I believe that all pollution should be taxed in order to put a price on it and then be able to control it, be it global shipping or local cars.

Public Transport

I don't think that I acknowledged that public transport needs improving, please do not interpret my words and play them back to me as a 'truth'. I don't find that acceptable and I would ask you to please respect that.

I can only speak for myself but I find public transport actually OK. Of course, it can always be improved. In the same way I would love to improve the volume of homework that my children do, but I accept that the volume that they do is acceptable! Having lived in a lot of different cities around the world, the public transport that we have in London and also in East Dulwich is better than any of the cities that I've lived in across Asia, South America, North America and Africa.

The different types of transport that I use in order to avoid owning a car are:

1. Walking

2. Bus

3. Cycling

4. Uber

5. Train

6. Car club

7. Boris bikes/equivalent when they are available

I would like to see more of all of these but please don't lose the fact of how lucky we are to have many different options of transport. Above all, I would like to see better car sharing rather than individual car ownership, but of course understand the difficulties in that.

Above all, and of course I am biased as per my note above, I would like to see segregated bike lanes throughout our area to further tempt people out of their cars. I'd start by putting in a cycle lane along East Dulwich Grove from Lordship Lane to Herne Hill if I could be the mayor for a day.

LTNs:

My view (and again, I suspect different to your view - but that is OK for me to have a different view) is that LTNs are a positive change. It is the volume of unnecessary car journeys that need to change here and cars are the easiest way to get around hence if (and I say if) we want to reduce the volume of journeys then a barrier, financial or otherwise, needs to be put in place to deter car journeys.

However, I find it intensely frustrating that we don't have a baseline measurement of pre and post traffic volumes albeit if pre LTN traffic was measured in a lockdown it would be meaningless. I travel along EDG 4 times a day and subjectively I see the traffic being better than I remember in the bad old days when I drove my children to school and used to sit in traffic along EDG. Likewise, I can see the opposing view that sees worse traffic volumes. In the same way I would love to see the variation in traffic along Lordship Lane over time. I remember bemoaning about the volume of traffic on the lane 15 years ago. In order to change something, you must measure it first.

Means tested road pricing

I like your proposal of means-tested road pricing, but I doubt the ability for it to be implemented efficiently and successfully, hence my comment that "no proposal will ever be perfect, but hopefully would be better than the status quo'.

I appreciate that my response may well prompt further questions from you, but please don't be disappointed or draw any conclusions if I choose not to respond. I've not asked you questions in response so as to not make a demand on your time.

[malumbu]

SE22_2020er - impressive, articulate and informed post. Certainly a lesson to me. I'll look forward to hearing more about your meeting with Rocks.

I doubt if you could 'means test' a road user charging scheme, in the same way that fuel duty and Vehicle Excise Duty are not means tested.

A number of organisations campaign for Road User Charging including London Living Streets: https://londonlivingstreets.com/2019/05/02/will-the-next-mayor-of-london-commit-to-per-mile-road-user-charging/

Sustrans https://www.sustrans.org.uk/media/5424/sustrans_manifesto_london_2020.pdf

And the Campaign for Better Transport https://bettertransport.org.uk/london-road-charging-proposals-campaign-better-transport-reacts

I'd urge those of you interested in cutting pollution and carbon emissions to join some of the national organisations and think beyond the confines of SE22.

PS evening, First Mate. I'm not an eco fascist and believe that informed choice as well as financial and other incentives should be used to encourage less car use. Informed choice would include factoring in environmental damage.