Dancers on the Goose Green Roundabout

[Huguenot]

I've already made clear that I completely back the underlying ambitions of the campaign. I'm certainly not accusing anyone of being man-hating RosieH.

What I've tried to do is to take the conversation to the next level, which looks beyond the overall 'mission', to the manifesto goals, strategy, tactics and accountability.

Saying that these are woolly is not a crime - and it's a view that is shared by the supporters, who believe it should be open to interpretation.

When you leave things open to interpretation you invariably get factions of individuals who believe in different methodologies that tear associations apart: typically in politics this means an aggregated scale between 'direct action' and 'soft power'.

That the UN is involved is neither here nor there: as an Organisation their role is to achieve a consensus - commonly reached through watering down commitments until they become meaningless.

Pointing out the weakness in the set up doesn't make me a troll: it should be an opportunity for those involved to try and improve the offering, rather than round on commentators with unreasonable accusations.

[dimples]

yes stresshead the vidio , LETS SEE THE VIDIO , sounds like fun was had by most !

[edhistory]

How would you calculate "most"?

What do you think about the road safety?

John K

[RosieH]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> When you leave things open to interpretation you

> invariably get factions of individuals who believe

> in different methodologies that tear associations

> apart: typically in politics this means an

> aggregated scale between 'direct action' and 'soft

> power'.

Good lord, Huguenot, you really have a corrodedly cynical view of the world. Have a look at the hundreds of videos of women and men coming together around the world to dance, and then show me the factions of individuals tearing V Day apart.

If you could find any, that might lend your words some credence. Otherwise it's just same old, same old rotten nonsense, from the man who interpreted rejection of the status quo as women going on a sex strike. A bizarre leap, I think anyone would agree, that says rather more about you than it does about V Day.

So, as I've already said, keeping with your spirit of reductio ad absurdum - I'm not going to have sex with Status Quo until there's an end to rape culture.

[edhistory]

> Have a look at the hundreds of videos of women and men coming together around the world to dance

Are there any of groups dancing on a busy urban roundabout?

John K

[davidh]

the event itself was just a small group of people having a dance (and fun) for a very short while. yet this is threatening to become a thread to rival the dreaded m&s saga. please, everyone, this one must end now.

[JohnL]

Unfortunately the highway code says any pedestrian on the road for any reason

has right of way. That means direct action takers too - so cars are just meant

to stop and wait for it to finish, I think, if they perceive any danger.

I saw a huge direct action demo by cyclists at Oxford Circus the other day - caused chaos

and as soon as the police got near they were gone - the traffic jam wan't though. But

as soon as the demo starts the traffic stops.

edhistory Wrote:

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> How would you calculate "most"?

>

> What do you think about the road safety?

>

> John K

[edhistory]

Thank you, JohnL.

Once the women had mounted the roundabout to have fun were they still on the road?

Does the Highway Code say anything about the deliberate distraction of traffic or is this in the RTAs?

John K

[RosieH]

davidh Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the event itself was just a small group of people

> having a dance (and fun) for a very short while.

> yet this is threatening to become a thread to

> rival the dreaded m&s saga. please, everyone, this

> one must end now.

david, the dancing on the roundabout was part of a global day of action on a serious subject, so it's worthy of debate, no? (although might be Lounge-able some time soon) To give you a sense of scale (from Eve Ensler, founder):

"One Billion Rising is happening big time, full scale, one Billion size. It is happening in 205 countries. It is happening where women will risk their lives to dance and where women have never danced before. It is happening in all 7,000 islands of the Philippines and in over 50 cities in Turkey. There are 100 risings in Italy, 135 risings in UK and thousands in North America. We are expecting 25 million to rise in Bangladesh, and it's hard to imagine the numbers in India but they will be massive."

And so, to John, I would say, yes, it's likely that somewhere around the world, another roundabout may have been involved. It happened. You might need some counselling in the short term, but you'll find it gets easier in time.

[buddug]

edhistory wrote:

'Edited in deference to our sub-editor:

1) to remove an exaggeration for effect

2) to correct a fat finger

3) to expand a contraction

Edited again to correct a new fat finger

John K'

And then: 'I have partially implemented your sub-editorial suggestions.

Now, what is your considered view on the safety aspects of the event?

John K'

That's more like it! You have a sense of humour! Loving it. I want to see more of this.

And in answer to your question, my considered view is that life is too short, John. No one was hurt, no one died, and a bit of fun came to East Dulwich for just a few minutes. In fact, you should have 'mounted' that roundabout yourself that day and joined in! You'd have enjoyed it, no really you would - and all in a very good cause.

I'm bowing out here, as it's not helping the thread. Good luck everyone!

(edited once just for the sheer hell of it)

[edhistory]

Let me paraphrase that:

"Nothing happened, so there was no risk".

It that right?

John K

[Burbage]

davidh Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the event itself was just a small group of people

> having a dance (and fun) for a very short while.

> yet this is threatening to become a thread to

> rival the dreaded m&s saga. please, everyone, this

> one must end now.

Surely not. The M&S obsession is just a grubbily aspirational monomania. This is far more interesting.

I'm fascinated, for example, by the suggestion that anything that might distract a driver should be purged from the streets. Foot-tappers are only the start of it, I'm sure. It'll soon be foxes, phones, flags and footballs, not to mention dogs and children. As for myself, who delights in a physique that might be described as distracting, I want to know if there are any plans to make me wear a burqa, or if I'm going be purged from the streets during the hours of daylight. I'd also like to know who gets to decide, and how. It's also worth remembering, in these years of bleak unemployment, the job-creation opportunities that might emerge. Moving every billboard to a traffic-free location might be just the stimulus we need. Perhaps the blazer-wearing wings of our motoring organizations are right, and it's time to review our lazy laws that legally oblige motorists to disregard distractions, if only for the sake of the economy.

Nobody has quite called for that yet, admittedly, but time is still our friend. After all, unless I'm much mistaken, a similar angle emerged when the proposals for ornamenting the roundabout were first discussed, and some opponents of the provocative Palm raised fears that such a salacious plant, merely through its baleful lurking, would lead to widespread slaughter, cause untold damage to property and foment unlawful thoughts. Although reality is, as ever, more disappointing than surprising, it would be unfortunate if people didn't feel free to advance such arguments, if only because the world needs a lot more giggles than it gets.

[buddug]

A sense of perspective is all that's needed here. There are far too many injustices and so much cruelty and horror in the world to get worked up only over traffic regulations. Yes, they're necessary, but sometimes trying to make the world a better place should and must take precedence. Is all I'm saying.

(edited to say lovely writing Burbage! And excellent points you make too!)

[Huguenot]

You might be getting some of the conversations mixed up buddug.

I've no query about the day of dancing, nor the desire for women worldwide to be treated with the respect due under basic human rights. Good on them, I share those goals!

I'd be the first dancing in the roundabout.

I was merely pointing out that this organisation aspires to loftier goals and a lasting influence (as well it should).

The world is littered with failed endeavors simply because of piss poor planning. At the moment, the wifty wafty manifesto pledges bear all the hallmarks of that.

I'm disappointed not because I want it to fail, but because I want it to succeed but see clear flaws at inception.

At the moment the main response seems to be 'we'll sort it out when we get to it' which is what every failed start-up I've ever worked with has said.

[Huguenot]

By the way buddug, I don't know why you're surprised I wondered if it was a sex strike - this is a traditional method of campaigning for women's rights in the developing world.

Most recently here in Togo last year: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/31/togo-womens-sex-strike-against-dictatorship

In the last decade we've had sex strikes in Columbia, Kenya, Liberia and The Philippines.

We've even had them in Italy, and proposals last year for the US.

So far from me being 'bizarre' by wondering if this was what the proposal meant, it would in fact appear that it's you who isn't familiar with the territory of this debate.

[Penguin68]

A 'sex strike' to achieve political ends has an excellent classical pedigree as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata

[buddug]

You're mixing me up with another poster Hugo. Not me who said 'bizarre'. However, what is bizarre is that you made the leap in this particular case. But wonderful to hear you'd have been up there dancing too. Next time, eh? And let me know - I shall be there at the front to watch!

And yes, Penguin, Lysistrata shows this method of protest goes back a long way, but of course not what's being called for here!

Some of you are highly skilled in hooking people back in, but now it really time to bid you all adieu.

[Miacis]

So pleased to see that this incredibly serious debate has been taken over by nitpicking and car drivers.

As someone who has been raped and didn't report it because I knew the status quo would never have provided any justice I am absolutely clear about what is meant and the scale of the challenge. I fear for my daughter as things seem to have got worse rather than better.

With one in three girls experiencing unwanted sexual touching at school, does that give you a sense of the status quo for young girls and women in this country, let alone other places?

Wish I'd known - would have been dancing

[El Pibe]

Marvellous, just like the old days!!

Can anyone confirm if any daffodils were harmed in the making of this dance?

Louisa will be having words....*crosses fingers*

[edhistory]

I saw no criminal damage.

John K