Afghanistan

[malumbu]

Interesting question time this evening - not that it will solve anything. Civilian deaths from Western activity in the latter years a bit worrying.

One thing that was incorrect, when the audience member had a go at the minister over mental health. I don't doubt we could do much better, but on the mental health of those returning from Afghanistan after tours of duty we were pretty exemplary. US were dreadful with their boys and girls.

That may not refer to longer term impact (PTSD) including how the current situation could further impact on veterans. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000z84j/question-time-2021-afghanistan-special

[womanofdulwich]

I don't know what you mean by exemplary. If you have met any young men that were based in Afghanistan and suffered an attack you could not say it was exemplary.

[Seabag]

Like Cat said

Trump time was great

[malumbu]

Returning from Afghanistan involved three weeks if I recall correct in Cyprus to get back some sort of 'normal' routine before coming back to the UK. These were often young men who'd been living on adrenaline and endorphins in the front line in Helmand Province, and would never have these level of excitement or camaraderie again. Some would find it difficult to readjust. For those not involved in war, and I am a total peacenik, it may be difficult to see this being described as excitement.

I organised a military veterans event 10 years ago, close to the Elephant, with those serving and supporting mental health, and involving local schools as well. This is what the military said, I wouldn't expect them to make it up. They were critical of the yanks for not doing the same, longer tours with less R&R between.

So I've got this from the people who were there. I can't comment on subsequent mental health issues, only the arrangements for returning troops. I've said that above.

[Sephiroth]

Beyond disgraceful but entirely in keeping with this clueless, feckless, moral-free bunch of shysters

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/19/guards-at-kabul-embassy-told-they-are-ineligible-for-uk-protection?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

In the words of someone else from today:

?The Govt wants to free itself from the shackles of the EU, flex its newly-independent muscles, and to evade (and row back from) its international commitments.

Yet, somehow it seems to expect its influence not to be diminished.?

[JohnL]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> Beyond disgraceful but entirely in keeping with

> this clueless, feckless, moral-free bunch of

> shysters

?There won?t be a GardaWorld project any more with the embassy; your jobs are gone.?

That sounds like a nice compassionate person.

[JohnL]

I guess Raab won't be resigning.

The guy is someone who always comes across to me as "small"

[intexasatthe moment]

The more you read the more horrific this becomes .

Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/19/what-lessons-should-the-west-learn-from-the-defeat-in-afghanistan

David Vine: This was a corrupt war to its core

Since it invaded Afghanistan, the US has fueled corruption in Afghanistan through CIA and military deliveries of bags of cash to Afghan power brokers and a system of bribes to ensure US troops remained fed and supplied. Absurdly, the US government has spent billions paying the Taliban not to attack convoys supplying troops sent to fight the Taliban.

The vast majority of the $2.3tn the US government has spent or obligated for the war has gone not to Afghans ? corrupt or otherwise ? but to US military contractors (and those who bought US debt): a reported 80?90% of US outlays ended up back in the US as a ?massive wealth transfer? from taxpayers to firms in the military industrial complex, which have seen their profits and stock prices skyrocket.

Beyond President Eisenhower?s worst nightmares, the military industrial complex has become defined by spiraling expenditures, fraud, and contracts lacking incentives to control costs. To keep the funding flow?ing, contractors have paid Washington DC lobbyists millions and made millions more in campaign contributions to Congress members who have inflated military budgets beyond cold war highs.

The military industrial complex has become a system of largely legalized corruption revolving around entrenched incentives to wage endless war for financial and political gain. If we don?t end this system and the corrupting belief that war is a legitimate and useful policy tool, the United States will keep fighting endless wars.

David Vine is Professor of Anthropology at American University in Washington, DC. Vine is the director of the American University Public Anthropology Clinic and a board member of Brown University?s Costs of War Project.

[wordsworth]

JohnL Wrote:

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> I guess Raab won't be resigning.

>

> The guy is someone who always comes across to me

> as "small"

Comes across as someone totally thick, immoral and useless

[malumbu]

Bit judgmental, I think only the latter two are correct. You can be intelligent, immoral and useless.

[SpringTime]

It's funny how the terror threat around Kabul airport has suddenly been declared to be 'severe," isn't it? I'd have thought it to be extremely high or severe at the best of times, let alone the past two weeks. But today the threat has become "severe" just at the moment the evacuation is to be abandoned. How convenient.

[Spartacus]

SpringTime Wrote:

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> It's funny how the terror threat around Kabul

> airport has suddenly been declared to be 'severe,"

> isn't it? I'd have thought it to be extremely high

> or severe at the best of times, let alone the past

> two weeks. But today the threat has become

> "severe" just at the moment the evacuation is to

> be abandoned. How convenient.

Spring time, sadly the level was raised just before an explosion so it was possibly raised as a result of on the ground intelligence rather than part of a conspiracy

[SpringTime]

Oh, there's been an explosion. I'm so cynical to be unconvinced it's the Taliban or ISIS-KP. Let's see what's said.

[first mate]

SpringTime, who do you think would have caused two reported explosions in last hour? Are you suggesting it is a setup by US/UK troops to hasten exit?

[SpringTime]

Of course I'm not 100% sure but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's some form of collusion.

(I was double jabbed nice and early, by the way!)

[SpringTime]

Ok I'm backing down. Done some more reading. Probably ISIS-KP or Taliban masquerading as ISIS-KP. Apologies.

[Spartacus]

SpringTime Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Of course I'm not 100% sure but I wouldn't be at

> all surprised if there's some form of collusion.

>

> (I was double jabbed nice and early, by the way!)

So you're saying that the US and UK are sanctioning the use of suicide bombers now

Wow

Did we also not go to the moon, aliens are real and running the US government, and Elvis shot Kennedy before riding off on Sherguard to have an illicit affair with Lord Lucan ?

Hope you've got your tin foil helmet on to stop the radio waves from altering your thinking...

[first mate]

No need to apologise, it is a very complex situation and we know most governments on earth are capable of using the dark arts for political expediency. I was genuinely interested what you thought was going on.

SpringTime Wrote:

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> Ok I'm backing down. Done some more reading.

> Probably ISIS-KP or Taliban masquerading as

> ISIS-KP. Apologies.

[JohnL]

first mate Wrote:

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> SpringTime, who do you think would have caused two

> reported explosions in last hour? Are you

> suggesting it is a setup by US/UK troops to hasten

> exit?

If there were destabilisers and agents of foreign powers they would just stir up trouble in the background that made attacks more likely not direct the bombers.

[first mate]

Agreed, my own view is it is most likely to be Isis KP, AQ or Taliban.