Tessa Jowell Centre ,use of masks

[womanofdulwich]

I had to attend for an early appointment today . Not one member of the cleaning staff was wearing a mask. Not one! What's the point of wiping down surfaces if you're not wearing a mask.? Some reception staff arrived, no masks as they walked through the building.

It makes me lose confidence, no one to complain to, and when challenged was told that it was safer not to wear one.

[Penguin68]

There are clearly differences of opinion about the utility of mask wearing - although it is commonly believed that the most risky behaviour (which therefore calls for mask wearing) is to stay within 2 metres of someone else for over 10 minutes in an unventilated space. The amount of infection that can be shown to result from contact with a contaminated surface is far less than was first thought - most infections seem to arise from aerosol spray. The cleaners (presumably working on their own and not within 2 metres of others on a continuous basis) were probably acting relatively safely - as were the reception staff processing through the building, which is, as I recall, quite well ventilated and open plan - and presumably again not within two metres of others for an extended period. They may anyway be required to take a lateral flow test before coming into work (as many in health care do).

I am not sure that anyone would normally claim that it was 'safer' not to wear a mask (unless clinically exempt) - although to rely on mask wearing (rather than normal hygiene, social distancing, being in ventilated spaces and vaccination) would clearly be foolish.

Generally mask wearing will make more sense when the traffic (people about) is higher or when you are in closely confined, unventilated spaces. Most of Tessa Jowell, particularly first thing when the cleaners are still about, probably doesn't qualify.

You can argue that mask wearing is about social signalling - and hence a form of courtesy - but that (may) be a different issue.

[Nigello]

I agree. I don't get too het up. If you are hugger-mugger in a train, bus etc. and no windows are open (easily remedied - just open them) then I would see it as a discourtesy but in a place with, like the TJC, high ceilings and open planned layout, then a cleaner working 6 foot away from me wouldn't make me concerned. Best plan is to curtail any kind of close contact unless absolutely NECESSARY (not desired, like going to a party, etc.), get jabbed thrice, stay as healthy as you can and sleep as well as you can. Others with specific needs will know more about their situation than I do, but this would still go for anyone. Relying on public signals like mask wearing risks not knowing the full picture as to what is needed for prevention/mitigation.

If you are concerned, ask to speak to the practice manager and send your comments to them and CC your local MP and/or councillor but please don't scare yourself into thinking things are more perilous than they are.

As for wiping down surfaces - Covid is very mainly airborne and the chances of picking up the virus after you've touched an infected surface and then your eye, mouth etc. are very small (at least to my knowledge gained from reading reliable sources, like NY Times, BBC, Time, etc.)

[Moovart]

It's NHS policy for all staff to wear masks in NHS premises so the cleaners should be wearing them as should all other members of staff as well as patients and visitors to NHS premises.

[womanofdulwich]

When it was pointed out to one cleaner, he claimed he did not know anything about it.Im afraid its this kind of culture/ attitude, not helped by Mps that will push us all backwards. I can't see these new rules sticking if they are not policed and enforced. I felt less safe in a hospital than I would in a supermarket at that time of day. Needless to say the health professionals all had masks/ visors. 🙄

[Penguin68]

I can't see these new rules sticking if they are not policed and enforced

If you are referring to the latest regulations which came into force this (Tuesday, 30th November) morning - then they only apply to mask wearing in shops and on public transport - not the NHS. The Tessa Jowell centre (the site owned by the Department of Health) is very much a mixed economy - with community services, hospital services and GP services - and (I'm guessing) their cleaning staff are not directly employed by the NHS at all (as they wouldn't be in a normal GP Surgery, for instance). The Centre will have 'rules' for staff (carrying no legal weight) - but whatever they are doing they will not be in breach (or in compliance, for that matter) with the new 'legal' rules announced.

[Pugwash]

My daughter who is an NHS employee in hospital, is required to take covid test twice a week and it is recorded on her records. If she does not record it - she gets a message to remind her. She wears a mask on the wards. Staff do not wear gloves unless they are physically handling patients, but sanitise several times a day

[Otto2]

High ceilings do not mean a place is ventilated - ventilated is when there is a mechanism for fresh air to enter - a window, an air duct, etc. Here is a really great little widget from The British Medical Journal where you can calculate risk and what difference different measures make. Masks are not just a "public signal" - if the right mask is worn properly, it can make a real difference alongside other measures.

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-065312.full?ijkey=PuBVt2y7ykdLW5J&keytype=ref

[first mate]

Otto2 Agreed.