Defending the indefensible - another PM thread

[malumbu]

Hearing the PMs tribute to Allegro Stratton tonight made me think of the game played on Radio 5's Fighting talk where two contestants have to defend something that is clearly wrong to most reasonable people.

But sadly the PM has form here, defending Cummings for his road trip, Hancock for his amorous behaviour and Owen Patterson for his misdoing.

A crass example but it is like me saying that Gary Glitter changed the face of British popular music and brought joy to many, but was a deviant preying on young people. The first part is factual (as is the second), we cannot and should not rewrite history, but I doubt I would ever be giving him (GG) a public tribute.

[Castleton]

Yeah, I almost spat my tea out! Tone deaf doesn't even start to describe it..

[JohnL]

He hates sacking people

But I think he'll have to sack a few more soon.

[TheCat]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> He hates sacking people

>

> But I think he'll have to sack a few more soon.

I thinks it's more that he hates making decisions. Much better to bluster and prevaricate than risk being held responsible for the consequences of an actual decision...

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> He hates sacking people

>

...which is odd for someone who's sacked off so many wives and children.

[Seabag]

He?s our very own Trump isn?t he, and he?s not finished yet. Like the GOP the Tory party is wilfully enabling him for its own desperate need to survive.

Lies, lies, lies and more lies. What a rotten sh1tbag Johnson?s proving to be again.

And what a shameful state our political class is in. I?m genuinely embarrassed at the way we?re seen by other nations.

[Seabag]

Fkucnig lying seems more contagious than Covid-19 and all its variants.

(In someways, like the VW scandal, those involved are so ?in the silo? they fail to check in with reality from time to time.)

?The health secretary has said he refused to face journalists because he was ?upset? by a leaked video showing Downing Street staff laughing about holding a Christmas party.

Sajid Javid had been due to speak to journalists from a number of media outlets during a broadcast round on Wednesday.

But he pulled out a ?few minutes? after a clip, obtained by ITV, was released. It showed the prime minister?s then-press secretary Allegra Stratton joking about how to describe a ?Christmas party? which took place in Number 10 while London was under lockdown restrictions.?

https://apple.news/A6QCgBnlaS56QoshV-CiPdA

[diable rouge]

He?s our very own Trump isn?t he, and he?s not finished yet. Like the GOP the Tory party is wilfully enabling him for its own desperate need to survive.

I doubt a sizeable number of Tory voters will buy into the lies to the extent GOP supporters have. The number of Republican voters that still believe the election was stolen is scary.

The Tory party will have no qualms about dumping Johnson once he's seen as an electoral liability, and he's getting closer and closer to that point. There were some Tory MPs who wanted him gone not long after the election, having served his purpose to 'Get Brexit done' but knowing he wasn't fit for office long-term...

[diable rouge]

The lies just keep on coming...

In May the PM told Lord Geidt that he did not know who was behind No11 flat refurb until Feb 2021

Today the Electoral Commission says Boris Johnson Whatsapped Lord Brownlow in November 2020 asking for more cash for the No11 refurb

[diable rouge]

So, the bloke in charge of No.10 communications, and presumably behind the PM's line ''There was no party'' for the past week, turns out to have been at the party handing out awards to the assembled staff.

The sheer, utter contempt they have for the truth and the public is off the scale...

[Chick]

What horrifies me is so much publicity about a party and nothing about the driving the NHS into the ground ready for privatisation.

[Nigello]

It is not "publicity" , which is relevant for a film, new computer game, etc. but "coverage" from media organisations, which are falling over themselves to highlight and investigate this story. As for your premonition and lack of coverage, please point us to it. Thanks

[Chick]

It's axiomatic.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So, the bloke in charge of No.10 communications,

> and presumably behind the PM's line ''There was no

> party'' for the past week, turns out to have been

> at the party handing out awards to the assembled

> staff.

>

> The sheer, utter contempt they have for the truth

> and the public is off the scale...

A bit like Shaun Bailey who said he was present at the gathering but only to give a speech. As he has quit as Chair of the Police and Crime Committee (!), that excuse turns out to be less successful than Clinton's "I smoked marijuana but didn't inhale" and about as successful as Corbyn's "I was at the Black September wreath laying but didn't participate".

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/extraordinary-image-shows-raucous-xmas-25699183

[jazzer]

Chick Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What horrifies me is so much publicity about a

> party and nothing about the driving the NHS into

> the ground ready for privatisation.

"nothing about the driving the NHS into

> the ground ready for privatisation."

It's not going to happen, please STOP scaremongering for whatever the political purpose is.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

It's not going to happen because it's already happened.

[jazzer]

How, what, when, where, how? I'd suggest providing evidence before sweeping in with your statement...

Evidence, evidence, evidence???

The NHS are LIFE savers, literally. So can you please just take a step back and stop knocking the organisation.

Unless you have experienced it first hand, you'll never ever know what an utterly amazing job they do day in, day out, 24hrs a day, 365 days Every Year. My evidence - (from personal experience on the receiving end). I'll be eternally grateful for what they did for me.

And yes things do go wrong, it's medical science but they try damn hard.

[Sephiroth]

Whilst the future of the NHS, it's structure and the govt intentions are all up for debate - I don't think anyone is knocking the NHS, the people who work there or the job they do jazzer?

[diable rouge]

What seph said, you can criticise the perceived privatisation of the NHS without knocking the staff...

[malumbu]

Privatisation has been on the agenda since Milburn's day when Health Secretary for Labour - and he will still argue for it now. On this occasion I don't think you can level this directly at Johnson.

[j.a.]

jazzer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How, what, when, where, how? I'd suggest providing

> evidence before sweeping in with your

> statement...

> Evidence, evidence, evidence???

>

> The NHS are LIFE savers, literally. So can you

> please just take a step back and stop knocking the

> organisation.

> Unless you have experienced it first hand, you'll

> never ever know what an utterly amazing job they

> do day in, day out, 24hrs a day, 365 days Every

> Year. My evidence - (from personal experience on

> the receiving end). I'll be eternally grateful for

> what they did for me.

>

> And yes things do go wrong, it's medical science

> but they try damn hard.

Literally no one here is having a go at the staff. I?d go so far as to say that everyone would agree with your characterisation of the organisation.

What is most certainly in question is the idea that the NHS has an ironclad defence against privatisation. A lot of people have a hefty (financial) interest in allowing/creating situations in which the NHS is overloaded so that they can push for privatisation. No doubt the NHS could be better managed at top levels and could handle procurement more effectively but that goes for every public organisation (and most private ones too). If you want to see a total boondoggle look at defence procurement! Ironically if we fixed defence spending we could find the NHS to an amazing standard.

The danger to healthcare that is free at the point of delivery is very real. But no politician is going to simply stop it. They?ll do it incredibly slowly, boiling us like the proverbial frog on a pot until one day it?s too late, and we didn?t even realise it.

It?s not the organisation that is the problem (with caveat of what I mentioned above), but the vultures who circle it, eyeing up the tremendous funding they could peel off for themselves. Big Pharma have done some amazing things during the pandemic, but it doesn?t change what they inherently are. ?Dopesick? anyone?

[WomblingFree]

One of my old managers said to me years ago "You can pretty much reduce a job interview to: does this person tell lies?" That line comes back to me whenever I read about BJ. I think it's an over-simplification (talent matters) but on the other hand, I've never met anyone who told lies who was any good at their job, whether that's the PM, Trump, or various colleagues I've had over my career.

I have zero training in psychology but I suspect the incompetence is why they end up lying.

[Seabag]

My ex is like Boris, in that they believe their own narrative, and if unchallenged, that becomes their ?truth?.

Only it doesn?t stand up to scrutiny often.

He?s spent, get rid of him. It?s not like he?s unaware of the consequences.

[diable rouge]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So, the bloke in charge of No.10 communications,

> and presumably behind the PM's line ''There was no

> party'' for the past week, turns out to have been

> at the party handing out awards to the assembled

> staff.

>

> The sheer, utter contempt they have for the truth

> and the public is off the scale...

So, the bloke in charge of the investigation into the bloke in charge of No.10 communications, and presumably behind the PM's line ''There was no party'' for the past week, who turned out to have been at the party handing out awards to the assembled staff, turns out to have been at another party.

The sheer, utter contempt etc etc etc...

[KidKruger]

No surprises tho really, eh ?!

Yeah the specific instances are contemptible, but a morally-grounded bunch we never expected !!