Defending the indefensible - another PM thread

[diable rouge]

malumbu Wrote:

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I worked in an office for many years. Each birthday was different, some would bring in cake and leave it in the tea point (no office party), some would go down the pub (in the old days lunch time, later years after work), some wouldn't tell a soul, some would take the day off. Very very rarely any sort of gathering in the office, maybe a big birthday.

In one office I once worked in (a period building like No. 10 but on a much smaller scale), whoever had a birthday had to buy cakes for the rest of the staff, and mid-afternoon we would all troop off to the office meeting room with mugs of tea in hand and have a good scoff and natter. Similarly if someone was leaving, although they didn't have to buy their own leaving presents!... :)

[diable rouge]

malumbu Wrote:

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In one respect it is a shame that Partygate has distracted us from other failings on the PM, not sure how much Dom is orchestrating this, and if so why the drip drip feed.

Suspect the drip feed is all about controlling the narrative, or more to the point, preventing Johnson and No 10 from controlling it and putting another spin on it. Cummings said he has deliberately given written evidence to Sue Gray for this very reason.

Lots of chatter that the big juicy leak will come out after the Sue Gray report is released, but that will probably be on hold now that the Met are officially investigating it...

[Spartacus]

Out of curiosity, the investigation may have two results

1. BJ leaves downing street either via resignation or vote of no confidence

2. He survives and continues as PM till the next election

If option 1 will this thread die a natural cause unless his replacement is worse ?

If option 2 will this thread continue up to the next election ?

Either way we should find out in the week or so.

DR

You raise an interesting point that Cummings seems to be making the government dance do his tune at the moment which distracts from other important things. Makes you question who really runs a country, the elected leader or people in the background ?

[diable rouge]

''Events dear boy, events''

Suspect like the original Brexit thread, this thread will morph into other threads depending on what happens next.

Plus you have the Ukraine situation which might throw up other issues with whoever the PM and governing party are...

[Seabag]

I like the drip-drip, Dom?s doing a good job on that front.

I?ve stopped seeing it as ?real politic? anymore, more of a slow contract killing of the PM on various digital platforms.

It?s easy to dip in & out, or to binge watch at the end of each day to catch up.

[diable rouge]

Can't wait for the season finale!...:)

[JohnL]

Sue Gray is gonna release her report anyway as the Met have no objection

[diable rouge]

If SG's report can be published while the Met is carrying out a similar investigation, then that just confirms that the report was only ever going to be very lightweight in substance and carry little sway with regards to passing judgement on Partygate as a whole and/or any individual's behaviour.

I would've thought though that No 10 will still fight hard against its publication, because ''waiting for the Met investigation'' buys them more time for the dust to settle.

Having said that, as a former No.10 pollster (James Johnson) says, most people have already made their mind up about Johnson's behaviour...

The big winner from today is, once again, Keir Starmer. Unless MPs seek a resolution, he will face Boris? Tories in May: racked by constant division, investigated by the police, with a leader who the public now despise and have already decided broke the rules.

Every % of Tory recovery in the polls will be jumped on as proof of people ?moving on?. But the damage to how voters view Boris - on trust, competence, delivery - is done. Mention him in focus groups now and it prompts anger but also laughter and derision. The latter will stay.

Many point to the high % of Tory-Don?t Knows in the polls as a sign the PM can bounce back.

But one reading of those Don?t Knows, borne out by the focus groups, is that many of them are only keeping their line open to the Party because they expect it to act.

Yes, today?s twist will be welcomed by No10. But, as the saga drags on, it is the worst outcome for the Conservative Party?s long-term electability.

The state of public opinion is clear - and with it, the PM?s interests and the Party?s interests no longer align.

It's the ''electability'' that will be the eventual undoing of Johnson...

[JohnL]

A lot of Tory Accounts seem to be saying "well who actually really obeyed the Covid laws"

They don't seem to understand how many of us did obey them and took them seriously.

[JohnL]

Sky News at 11:00 seem to be referring to the cabinet as a herd of wilderbeast

(low voice)

"watch these cabinet members exit No10 and run around confusingly looking for a car"

[first mate]

JohnL Wrote:

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> A lot of Tory Accounts seem to be saying "well who

> actually really obeyed the Covid laws"

>

> They don't seem to understand how many of us did

> obey them and took them seriously.

Not only that, there is by some an implication that those who did follow the rules have only themselves to blame for being so gullible and so dumb.

[JohnL]

Anyway Boris very bullish in PMQs and many would say he dominated SKS

But 10 seconds after it ended a leak from the Foreign Office - he authorised those animals to be given transport from Afghanistan then denied it (so caught lying)

[Seabag]

Is there anything this cnut doesn?t lie about?

https://apple.news/AHGgpSVV6Qb-Gr-jHbTYVaQ

[malumbu]

I've had some involvement in Covid response, not at the seat of power and not a significant role. No state secrets. And it certainly isn't a secret that government have done considerable research into the attitudes of the public, comparisons with overseas etc, to help guide the level of response, voluntary vs compulsory etc. This showed that the public generally supported measures, most would wear face coverings, social distance etc.

A shame they didn't survey their own ministers and political appointees.

[JohnL]

Maybe some of the "anti-maskers" are scared wearing a mask might become a habit - I have the habit of a facemask when shopping or on the tube/bus now :)

[TheCat]

Slightly facetious comment....

But in winter, as a spectacle wearer, any donning of the mask either inside or outside results in almost immediate blindness through fogging...so I do have to judge what I'm doing as to relative risk....I.e. School pickup, risk of collecting the wrong child:)....

[JohnL]

I don't actually mind either way recently - as in the pub nobody does except the bar staff. I wear them if it might upset others if I don't.

[TheCat]

JohnL Wrote:

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> I don't actually mind either way recently - as in

> the pub nobody does except the bar staff. I wear

> them if it might upset others if I don't.

The strange child in my house seems to be an advocate of masks too...:)

[malumbu]

The stuff on moving rescued animals out of Kabul is interesting. I would expect that these decisions were made by the Foreign Secretary, or junior ministers/official under his/her authority. Or perhaps at ministerial committee (ie COBR), or Cabinet. But not PM in isolation. But no smoke without fire.

The fact that I use COBR (Cabinet Office Briefing Room) rather than COBRA (a snake/British beer pretending to be Indian) shows that I know more than the average journalist about process in government. And Indian 'style' beers.

[ianr]

I'm far from sure, after listening to lots of reports in the last two days, that there's even a common understanding of the meanings of "intervene".

[malumbu]

Actually thinking back on what I said, this PM acts very differently to others. I have an idea make it happen.

Now perhaps in a business at the cutting edge this is the way to get things done. But in government there has be some due process, accountability, record keeping etc. I expect some of what is done doesn't go through the normal channels. Or the PM would "like something", and suddenly that becomes the collective vision, rather than a proper analysis of the options, impacts, reputation and the like.

Only hearsay I hasten to add. No eyewitness account.

[Sue]

TheCat Wrote:

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> Slightly facetious comment....

>

> But in winter, as a spectacle wearer, any donning

> of the mask either inside or outside results in

> almost immediate blindness through fogging...so I

> do have to judge what I'm doing as to relative

> risk....I.e. School pickup, risk of collecting the

> wrong child:)....

There are anti-fogging liquids and cloths for glasses.

[Siduhe]

These are by far the best masks I have found to wear with glasses. Very limited fogging and easy to adjust so you don't get any.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09J92GRXR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[diable rouge]

It's here folks!...

[Sue]

🤣