Politicians that speak well and with gravitas - even if you don't like their policies

[malumbu]

Just watching Gove on the beeb today, he speaks well, doesn't get side tracked or flustered, makes his simple point. Can't stand the bloke, but can't knock his public speaking. Two more are Reece Mogg and Zahawi, again don't like their policies etc. Very much bucks the trend with this government, and much of their waffle and gesture politics.

Put your prejudices to one side and Starmer - ruined at times as he needs to get in some populist stuff in or like the PM doesn't answer the question. Nandy tends to butt in too much and rather too passionate, noting that of all people Cummings rates her, and perhaps lightweight. Rayner, again let down by her politics. It's good to have some old school back - Millband (albeit I find his general tone a bit irritating, and probably contributed to him failing at the General Election as this and some of his policies was easy to pick off by the right wing press) and Yvette Cooper.

I was at an event a few years ago where Abbott gave a really shallow speech. She had been preceded by this wonderful presentation, and a few years later I remembered it was by the then Leader of the Opposition a certain Mr Corbyn.

Anyway this is about those that speak well, rather than those who are dreadful - PM, Patel, and many of the opposition.

Two more are Sturgeon, and Blackford.

Of course all put in the shadow by some of the officials during Covid, probably most people's fave is Van Tam.

[Guest]

This is how good Gove is at speaking. Gove was not a posh boy, I believe he was actually adopted by a a working-class Aberdonian household, so by no way, did he have an easy upbringing, but boy done well.

[Nigello]

Sturgeon is good with a script but perilously bad when challenged and she doesn?t like the dir3ctiom of travel.

[wordsworth]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just watching Gove on the beeb today, he speaks

> well, doesn't get side tracked or flustered, makes

> his simple point. Can't stand the bloke, but can't

> knock his public speaking. Two more are Reece

> Mogg and Zahawi, again don't like their policies

> etc. Very much bucks the trend with this

> government, and much of their waffle and gesture

> politics.

>

> Put your prejudices to one side and Starmer -

> ruined at times as he needs to get in some

> populist stuff in or like the PM doesn't answer

> the question. Nandy tends to butt in too much and

> rather too passionate, noting that of all people

> Cummings rates her, and perhaps lightweight.

> Rayner, again let down by her politics. It's good

> to have some old school back - Millband (albeit I

> find his general tone a bit irritating, and

> probably contributed to him failing at the General

> Election as this and some of his policies was easy

> to pick off by the right wing press) and Yvette

> Cooper.

>

> I was at an event a few years ago where Abbott

> gave a really shallow speech. She had been

> preceded by this wonderful presentation, and a few

> years later I remembered it was by the then Leader

> of the Opposition a certain Mr Corbyn.

>

> Anyway this is about those that speak well, rather

> than those who are dreadful - PM, Patel, and many

> of the opposition.

>

> Two more are Sturgeon, and Blackford.

>

> Of course all put in the shadow by some of the

> officials during Covid, probably most people's

> fave is Van Tam.

What planet are you on? Give is a utter lying hypocritical pile of shite

[Guest]

but that was not what this is about, it is about what he's like as a speaker and bearing in mind his upbringing which was hard, he's done well for himself, so to call him "a utter lying hypocritical pile of shite" is at the very least unjustified.

[Sephiroth]

What this country needs is a lot more substance over style

Instead we have a nation of forelock-tuggers happy to go along with all kinds of dangerous nonsense if the person sounds good

I genuinely don?t care either way If someone has done well for themselves. I care when people do well for the country. And gove (to take this example) has done very badly for the country

Not as badly as his rival/boss. Another criminal who the country took a shine to because of the way he speaks.

[Guest]

couldn't miss the opportunity to have a go hey!!

[TheCat]

Interesting topic.

I think most people will struggle with being able to seperate out and isolate out this one characteristic from their overall view of a politican. Another feature of the all or nothing/ tribal type way that public debate has gone.

But it is indeed possible....probably the most powerful example I can think of is Adolff Hitler. Its pretty hard to argue that he wasnt a highly skilled orator....

[KidKruger]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What this country needs is a lot more substance

> over style

>

> Instead we have a nation of forelock-tuggers happy

> to go along with all kinds of dangerous nonsense

> if the person sounds good

>

> I genuinely don?t care either way If someone has

> done well for themselves. I care when people do

> well for the country. And gove (to take this

> example) has done very badly for the country

>

> Not as badly as his rival/boss. Another criminal

> who the country took a shine to because of the way

> he speaks.

Yep.

[JohnL]

Gordon Brown speaks well and has substantive policies but accusations of losing his temper followed him (not to the extent of Bercow)

[oimissus]

Not a politician but I remember once hearing Vanessa Feltz on the radio and she spoke amazingly - went of on several tangents but not an 'um' or 'er' anywhere and the whole thing was coherent when it could easily have been a mess.

Anyway - also not a politician, though an ex- politician - Rory Stewart.

Re Gove, I'm going to salute him for his current work in getting responsibility for the cladding scandal away from tenant and hone-owners and where it should be.

[Sephiroth]

Feltz. A good example of someone who people seem to like because she speaks well but by many accounts is a horrendous individual. You can find many accusations of bullying online - I had cause to interact with her twice and whilst only anecdotal can vouch for deep unpleasantness

So who cares if she speaks well or not?

[oimissus]

*Sephiroth* - you?ve answered your own question - because good communication skills are really important. Good people may not be heard because they don?t have these skills.

I know nothing about Vanessa Feltz, and I never said I liked her. I simply commented on her speaking.

I don?t think you really understand the point of this thread.

[Sephiroth]

I get the purpose of the thread. But yes I do consider it a pointless question

Bad people being good at comms should make us wary, not something to admire

And despite people saying ?I disagree with them? the admiration is showing through

[diable rouge]

I've no idea if Hitler was a great speaker as I've only ever seen snippets from newsreels/documentaries etc, plus I don't speak German so I've also no idea of what he was actually saying let alone the context.

Instead I think his success was more to do with his exploitation of visual communication/propaganda, especially film which was still a relatively new medium, not dissimilar to Putin's exploitation of social media in his disinformation war with the West since 2016. Dictators are clever in that respect.

Hitler's speeches would've played some part, but his rallies were highly organised and choreographed events with the visual in mind e.g. the torch-lit processions, the Nazi insignia/flags etc, to such an extent that he even had his own film-maker to pre-plan them all. He also used architecture, in his case grandiose classical buildings in direct opposition to the new international style of Modernism which was seen as 'Socialist'. He even used fashion designer Boss to sex-up the uniforms (Star Wars is basically WW2 in space).

He may have been a failed artist but he obviously understood the power of visual communication...

[Seabag]

Arthur Scargill

[wordsworth]

This thread is becoming unbearable.

[Spartacus]

Sooty

Although Matthew Corbett had to translate for the masses

[Nigello]

Back on topic - good diction and effective communication does not have to have anything to do with accent. Some native speakers I know are not a patch on those with English as a second language, who have taken more care in understanding and being understood.

[diable rouge]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> Sooty

>

> Although Matthew Corbett had to translate for the

> masses

To be fair on Sooty, if Matthew Corbett shoved his hand up your backside you'd need a translator...

[diable rouge]

Just watching Gove on the beeb today, he speaks well, doesn't get side tracked or flustered, makes his simple point. Can't stand the bloke, but can't knock his public speaking.

This aged well...:)

 

[IlonaM]

Mhairi Black MP - just watched this very eloquent and passionate speech from earlier this week. Much-needed message well-delivered.

[Guest]

Gove in full flow demonstrating what an elegant and great orator Michael is.

 

[JohnL]

Ken Clarke - even in Hush Puppies

[Nigello]

Oratory is ok but I prefer action and commitment. Nice sentence construction doesn?t build homes, develop mass transit, develop healthcare systems.