Where are you from?

[TheCat]

Bit of hoopla at the moment about a royal aide asking a black Briton where she was 'really' from?

Different people will view this with differing degrees of severity as an offensive act, but overall, for me, its no doubt a real kick in the teeth and potentially quite upsetting for anyone who was born and raised here to be asked, based solely on how on how they look.

Sometimes of course people may have genuine curiosity if someone is 'obviously' from another part of the world....and invariably people from other parts of the world are proud of that fact and (in my experience) enjoy being asked about their heritage...

But when I say 'obviously', I mean things like accents, not skin colour.

So if in a situation where one wants to take an interest in whoever you might be talking to, I will often ask 'where is your accent from?'.....the question applies to people of all colours, I often ask it of Europeans, and I also very often get asked it myself....

Any other approaches people take to asking other people about themselves? (not just in the context of where they are from....could be anything..i.e. You look like you used to play rugby?..."no im just fat"....or "congratulations, when is the baby due?....'no im just fat") while balancing off against human tendancy to make presumptions sometimes.....

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I don't think anyone that asks is necessarily being rude or discriminatory but personally I avoid asking the question out of nowhere because:

1) it gets quite boring answering the same question over and over again

2) I don't want to pry into people's lives (if they bring it up etc then it's a different matter)

3) there are people who have spent a lot of time being othered and made to feel like they don't belong, and who may understandably feel narked off being asked where they're from just because of the colour of their skin.

As an aside, it's striking that the "rudeness" took place within the institution that is so painfully up its own arse when it comes to protocol and etiquette...

[HeadNun]

I ask people where they're from all the time, if I can tell they weren't born here. It invariably leads to interesting conversations, during which I usually learn a lot and we often find some common ground. I've found that people enjoy talking about their home countries and culture, no one has ever been offended.

I was raised in Africa for some of my life, have worked all over the world and, even though I'm white (Scots Irish), I have a Nigerian name, which causes no small amount of hilarity whenever I meet someone Nigerian and it's always a great conversation starter.

In my experience, white racists tend not to be well travelled and tend not to be interested in finding out about people's backgrounds and culture.

In the case of BP, I cannot be sure that that tweet is a word-for-word transcript of the exchange. Ngozi Fulani was wearing what looked to be some sort of African dress and has a west African name, which may have lead SH to think she wasn't from the UK. Once she'd heard Hackney, it might have been prudent to leave it there, but it's possible, she was trying to A) start a conversation and find out more about Ngozi and B) try to get some details so she could brief the palace about her, ahead of introducing Ngozi to someone else. I also gather there were people from all over the world there. Perhaps she pushed it too hard but, in the all the years she's been of service to a very much non-racist queen, I find it hard to believe that she purposefully and maliciously went out of her way to make Ngozi feel uncomfortable.

Context is everything and sometimes the way something is felt isn't the way it was intended.

[malumbu]

Clearly it was wrong. Society rightly moves on, we no longer use the word coloured, or collect gollywogs. In the 1970s most in wouldn't know that this was offensive. We know now.

There are better ways to ask about heritage, rather than where are you from. Better subjects to debate PC etc Cat.

[jazzer]

Question, how can someone remember word for word what was said as quoted in the transcript?

It is not just colour of skin that gets comments, even if you have a non British surname, unfortunately indirect racism still takes place, sad but true.

People who do it may not realise that those on the receiving end have clocked what is happening, but we DO. It demonstrates your arrogance, we put up with your "games", move on and outplay you in the long game.

[malumbu]

To argue with myself was Johnson any better in some of the terms that he, very knowingly, used to describe some non-white/non-Christian communities, and dare I say the late Duke of Edinburgh

[malumbu]

Where you from?

Dartmoor on the run

Why do you speak that way?

We're from Catford (ain't we eh?)

[TheCat]

At the risk of venturing into the 'verboten' of daring to question someone's 'lived experience' of racism....

Yes, the comments/questions were wrong, and i make no change to my view on that, but can't help but feel like this is being milked a bit now...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/01/buckingham-palace-encounter-with-susan-hussey-like-an-interrogation-says-charity-boss

Interrogation?

abuse?

Windrush?

Pressure to renounce citizenship?

Really?

[HeadNun]

  Quote

To argue with myself was Johnson any better in some of the terms that he, very knowingly, used to describe some non-white/non-Christian communities, and dare I say the late Duke of Edinburgh

 

That was genuine baiting. The intent was very clearly there.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

  Quote

Clearly it was wrong. Society rightly moves on, we no longer use the word coloured, or collect gollywogs. In the 1970s most in wouldn't know that this was offensive. We know now.

There are better ways to ask about heritage, rather than where are you from. Better subjects to debate PC etc Cat.

I think that's a bit of a simplistic position. I can easily believe that some people like HeadNun are sensible and sensitive enough to "read the room" to ask it in a nice way to the right people, while others by intent or ineptitude will end up bothering people with the same question.

[diable rouge]

Re. the ''I'm always asked about my accent'' takes.

It is indeed common to ask someone where their accent is from, it's an easy conversation ice-breaker.

The difference is, if you're white, there's rarely the follow-up question of ''Yes, but where did you originally come from?''...

[HeadNun]

It appears that Ngozi Fulani isn't her real name. I did think Fulani was an odd surname, and that it was odd to have a name like that if your origins are the West Indies. It's Marlene Headley, I think. And she's aired views before that the royal family is racist and subjected Harry and Meghan to domestic violence.

It looks as if, even though Susan Hussey was probably pretty tactless, she was walking straight into a trap.

If Headley had a non British name and was wearing a costume that looked to be from another country, it's fair to assume she might be proudly representing another country and want to talk about said other country. Who knows...

I mean if I turned up in the EDT in full in C17th Huguenot dress and called myself Marie La Touche, it might be reasonable for people to be curious.

[TheCat]

  diable rouge said:

Re. the ''I'm always asked about my accent'' takes.

It is indeed common to ask someone where their accent is from, it's an easy conversation ice-breaker.

The difference is, if you're white, there's rarely the follow-up question of ''Yes, but where did you originally come from?''...

 

If a black person has a foreign accent which they are asked about, and they respond with the country where they developed said accent, it would seem very strange for someone to then ask where they are originally from?

Akin to asking what football team someone supports, being given the answer, then following up with 'but what team do you REALLY support?'

I know many like to paint Britain is a racist hellhole, and that was message you were seemingly trying to convey?....but you've probably tried a lite too hard on this occasion methinks..

[Sue]

  diable rouge said:

Re. the ''I'm always asked about my accent'' takes.

It is indeed common to ask someone where their accent is from, it's an easy conversation ice-breaker.

The difference is, if you're white, there's rarely the follow-up question of ''Yes, but where did you originally come from?''...

 

Yes, exactly.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

  Quote

It appears that Ngozi Fulani isn't her real name.

It appears that Baroness Hussey of North Bradley isn't her real name.

But in any case you'd have thought the Royal Household would be pretty cool about changing family names to better reflect your identity...