Cyclists taking over paths!!

[Spartacus]

@Hen123 please show us your workings to arrive at 85% 

or is that purly your opinion ? 

if opinions count then why do 2000% of all cyclists in my opinion flout the rules ? 

Ps as I said earlier, it's about everybody obeying all the rules 

Not just one set of people or the other but you don't seem to want to agree to that.

Edited May 19, 2024 by Spartacus

[Hen123]

2 hours ago, Spartacus said:

@Hen123 please show us your workings to arrive at 85% 

or is that purly your opinion ? 

if opinions count then why do 2000% of all cyclists in my opinion flout the rules ? 

Ps as I said earlier, it's about everybody obeying all the rules 

Not just one set of people or the other but you don't seem to want to agree to that.

Sure. And this is just seeding. With the all the other law breaking it probably more like 90%+. 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/08/24/85-of-car-drivers-break-20mph-speed-limits-reveals-uks-department-for-transport/

[alice]

This thread is about cycling on paths -  any other generalised information from UK wide studies belongs, if anywhere, in the lounge

[Hen123]

24 minutes ago, alice said:

This thread is about cycling on paths -  any other generalised information from UK wide studies belongs, if anywhere, in the lounge

You’re funny. Didn’t you move to Essex? 

[alice]

Is that a euphemism?

[Spartacus]

@Hen123 you still aren't saying if you support everyone obeying the rules. Why is that ? 

[Hen123]

5 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

@Hen123 you still aren't saying if you support everyone obeying the rules. Why is that ? 

Are you saying more should be done about 90% of motorists who break them? 

[Spartacus]

I liked the bit In your article that said. 

“The statistics provide insights into speeds at which drivers choose to travel when free to do so,” says the DfT, adding that they are “not representative of the level of speeding across the whole road network, which we would expect to be lower.”

And 

"RAC Report on Motoring 2022 asked users to select up to three reasons why they exceed the speed limit for each road class. On roads with 20mph limits, the top reason for exceeding the speed limit was “speed limit being inappropriate for the road,” which was cited by 47% of 20mph road users" 🤔

As @alice clearly pointed out, this is about cyclists not motorists. Your refusal to answer the question is showing that you clearly don't think cyclists should obey the rules, fair play on you, in that case why  should motorists ? 

My simple answer, as I stated before is that everyone should obey the rules, as to how that's enforced is not my area of expertise

 Maybe it's yours @Hen123 in which case you tell us how you would make sure everyone obeys the rules to make everyone safe, including cyclists and drivers! 

[Hen123]

17 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

I liked the bit In your article that said. 

“The statistics provide insights into speeds at which drivers choose to travel when free to do so,” says the DfT, adding that they are “not representative of the level of speeding across the whole road network, which we would expect to be lower.”

And 

"RAC Report on Motoring 2022 asked users to select up to three reasons why they exceed the speed limit for each road class. On roads with 20mph limits, the top reason for exceeding the speed limit was “speed limit being inappropriate for the road,” which was cited by 47% of 20mph road users" 🤔

As @alice clearly pointed out, this is about cyclists not motorists. Your refusal to answer the question is showing that you clearly don't think cyclists should obey the rules, fair play on you, in that case why  should motorists ? 

My simple answer, as I stated before is that everyone should obey the rules, as to how that's enforced is not my area of expertise

 Maybe it's yours @Hen123 in which case you tell us how you would make sure everyone obeys the rules to make everyone safe, including cyclists and drivers! 

If you stand by one of those speed monitoring cameras for a while you’ll see the same thing. 90% over the limit. Southwark has speed monitoring stations all around and you can see consistent data there. The *average* car speed in 20 zones is 26 miles an hour. So I will ask again what do you think should be about car drivers widespread and persistent breaking of the law? And why do they think they are above the law? 

[Spartacus]

@Hen123 I will repeat my answer as you seem to be having a few difficulties comprehending it (maybe the flashes from all those special cameras has blinded you 😉 ) 

Quote 

My simple answer, as I stated before is that everyone should obey the rules, as to how that's enforced is not my area of expertise

 Maybe it's yours @Hen123 in which case you tell us how you would make sure everyone obeys the rules to make everyone safe, including cyclists and drivers! 

Unquote 

You will note that I haven't said car drivers are above the law or nor can I.provide a simple solution.

Now back to the question at hand, why do you think cyclists should be above the law, surly one set of rules for all is the best policy or are cyclists special in your eyes ? 

If you avoid answering the question again, then it's a simple conclusion that you don't agree. 

Avoidance is not an answer 😐 

[Hen123]

24 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

@Hen123 I will repeat my answer as you seem to be having a few difficulties comprehending it (maybe the flashes from all those special cameras has blinded you 😉 ) 

Quote 

My simple answer, as I stated before is that everyone should obey the rules, as to how that's enforced is not my area of expertise

 Maybe it's yours @Hen123 in which case you tell us how you would make sure everyone obeys the rules to make everyone safe, including cyclists and drivers! 

Unquote 

You will note that I haven't said car drivers are above the law or nor can I.provide a simple solution.

Now back to the question at hand, why do you think cyclists should be above the law, surly one set of rules for all is the best policy or are cyclists special in your eyes ? 

If you avoid answering the question again, then it's a simple conclusion that you don't agree. 

Avoidance is not an answer 😐 

So what do you think should happen to the 90% odd car drivers that break the law and think they are above it? 

[Spartacus]

@Hen123 still avouding answering the question on why you think cyclists are above the law.🫣

As stated before , and I will put this simply because you seem to be struggling to  comprehend, "I don't know how to enforce the rules" 

However, and again simply speaking, "I believe everyone should obey them" 

Blimey, if you struggle understanding simple statements then I suspect the highway code is a real challenge for you to comprehend 🤣

[Rockets]

Some choose not to watch the Simon Munk video because it confirms what we are saying that bad cycling is very prevalent. There are three cyclists in the video: one is cycling along the pavement, one cycling the wrong way up a one-way cycle lane and another cycling incredibly fast across the pavement onto the cycle lane.

 

And the previous video shows every cyclist ignoring the pedestrian crossing and others riding in a manner that puts pedestrians at risk. One ignores the pedestrian crossing and knocks and old lady flat on her face.

But Simon Munk, and no doubt a lot of the cultists on here, will have you believe that all you need is a raised pedestrian crossing to solve the problem and anyway, how dare you change anything to do with cycle infrastructure as it will "endanger lives".

 

They'll probably also try to provide a defence that if you're a cyclist and you kill someone whilst you're doing an average of 25mph whilst racing in a peleton around Regents Park you can claim: "The speed limit does not apply to me". 

Well it's about time it did and cyclists are just going to have to accept that they need to stop thinking they own the road and start following the rules. Changing laws like causing death by dangerous cycling is only due to an increase in dangerous cycling and affording protection to pedestrians, who are the most vulnerable road users - something the Highway Code now makes very clear yet many cyclists chose to ignore. 

 

Edited May 19, 2024 by Rockets

[Hen123]

3 hours ago, Rockets said:

Some choose not to watch the Simon Munk video because it confirms what we are saying that bad cycling is very prevalent. There are three cyclists in the video: one is cycling along the pavement, one cycling the wrong way up a one-way cycle lane and another cycling incredibly fast across the pavement onto the cycle lane.

 

And the previous video shows every cyclist ignoring the pedestrian crossing and others riding in a manner that puts pedestrians at risk. One ignores the pedestrian crossing and knocks and old lady flat on her face.

But Simon Munk, and no doubt a lot of the cultists on here, will have you believe that all you need is a raised pedestrian crossing to solve the problem and anyway, how dare you change anything to do with cycle infrastructure as it will "endanger lives".

 

They'll probably also try to provide a defence that if you're a cyclist and you kill someone whilst you're doing an average of 25mph whilst racing in a peleton around Regents Park you can claim: "The speed limit does not apply to me". 

Well it's about time it did and cyclists are just going to have to accept that they need to stop thinking they own the road and start following the rules. Changing laws like causing death by dangerous cycling is only due to an increase in dangerous cycling and affording protection to pedestrians, who are the most vulnerable road users - something the Highway Code now makes very clear yet many cyclists chose to ignore. 

 

It starts with pedestrian walking down the middle of a cycle lane.

3 hours ago, Spartacus said:

@Hen123 still avouding answering the question on why you think cyclists are above the law.🫣

As stated before , and I will put this simply because you seem to be struggling to  comprehend, "I don't know how to enforce the rules" 

However, and again simply speaking, "I believe everyone should obey them" 

Blimey, if you struggle understanding simple statements then I suspect the highway code is a real challenge for you to comprehend 🤣

So what do you think should happen to the 90% odd car drivers that break the law and think they are above it? 

[Rockets]

20 minutes ago, Hen123 said:

It starts with pedestrian walking down the middle of a cycle lane

But we are talking about the cyclists are we not? Did you also notice the very same pedestrian walks across the pedestrian crossing and what happens...the cyclist cycling up the wrong way of the cycle lane doesn't stop at the pedestrian crossing....

 

Perhaps you would like to try and find fault with the pedestrians in the other video....or are you refusing to watch that one too...time to take the blinkers off perhaps...

20 minutes ago, Hen123 said:

So what do you think should happen to the 90% odd car drivers that break the law and think they are above it? 

Well if they get caught speeding they get fined...you can kill someone when youre riding a bike and claim the speed limit doesn't count for you and you can't be charged with causing death by dangerous cycling. Is that perfectly acceptable in your world?

 

As I have said for a long time the daily repeated examples of.bad cycling everyone can see must be down to arrogance or ignorance...which one is it? Police are starting to have to more aggressively police cycling not because they want to but because they have to..why..because cyclist behaviour is getting worse.

Edited May 19, 2024 by Rockets

[Hen123]

2 hours ago, Rockets said:

But we are talking about the cyclists are we not? Did you also notice the very same pedestrian walks across the pedestrian crossing and what happens...the cyclist cycling up the wrong way of the cycle lane doesn't stop at the pedestrian crossing....

 

Perhaps you would like to try and find fault with the pedestrians in the other video....or are you refusing to watch that one too...time to take the blinkers off perhaps...

Well if they get caught speeding they get fined...you can kill someone when youre riding a bike and claim the speed limit doesn't count for you and you can't be charged with causing death by dangerous cycling. Is that perfectly acceptable in your world?

 

As I have said for a long time the daily repeated examples of.bad cycling everyone can see must be down to arrogance or ignorance...which one is it? Police are starting to have to more aggressively police cycling not because they want to but because they have to..why..because cyclist behaviour is getting worse.

If 85% of car drivers are regularly breaking the law and think they are above it - then it suggests they aren’t being caught and fined doesn’t it? 

[first mate]

7 hours ago, Rockets said:

As I have said for a long time the daily repeated examples of.bad cycling everyone can see must be down to arrogance or ignorance...which one is it? Police are starting to have to more aggressively police cycling not because they want to but because they have to..why..because cyclist behaviour is getting worse

This!

And just a polite reminder to certain posters on here, the title of the thread is "cyclists taking over paths"!

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by first mate

[Rockets]

6 hours ago, Hen123 said:

If 85% of car drivers are regularly breaking the law and think they are above it - then it suggests they aren’t being caught and fined doesn’t it? 

Hen123 are you still struggling to bring yourself to watch and pass comment the cycling videos? Your continued blinkeredness seems to be the go-to position for many of the cycling cultists and is amplifying our position on why it is so difficult to have a pragmatic, rational discussion with the pro-cycle lobby.....they just don't want to hear anything other than cyclists are angels and car drivers are devils...I am afraid to break it to you but there are a growing number of cyclists who are giving the good ones a very bad name by their selfishness.

 

Probably a good time for another of the regular updates on the rogue's gallery of local offenders....anyone recognise themselves on here on the latest compilation posted 9 days ago...;-)

 

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by Rockets

[Spartacus]

10 hours ago, Hen123 said:

 

So what do you think should happen to the 90% odd car drivers that break the law and think they are above it? 

@Hen123 you really don't seem to have a grasp of conversational English yet, three times you have asked me the same question and three times I have given you the simple answer of I don't know  yet three times you have failed to comprehend it. 

Multiple times I have asked you a simple "yes" / "no" question which is "Do you think all road users should obey ALL the rules?" But you are incapable of answering it.

You are starting to sound lile a cheap knock off first gen AI Troll bot. 

However, as that's what I believe you are, I will put this into French, just incase your developer wrote you in the international language of cyclists who all believe they are in the Tour De France

"Pensez-vous que tous les usagers de la route devraient respecter TOUTES les règles ?" 

If you fail to answer this time, then I conclude your computer programming says "No" and no further input from you is of any consequence to me or this discussion concerning poor cycling practices. 

 

[malumbu]

8 hours ago, first mate said:

This!

And just a polite reminder to certain posters on here, the title of the thread is "cyclists taking over paths"!

 

Well now you have asked.  Cycle paths are for cyclists so there is no question about 'taking over'.  Shared paths are shared so there is no such thing as 'taking over'.  Footpaths, from my experience of many decades as a pedestrian, are mainly used by pedestrians so have not been taken over by cyclists.

Edited May 20, 2024 by malumbu

[Spartacus]

@malumbu that's the whole point of where this discussion started, cyclists on footpaths, which as we clearly know, is illegal  yet cyclists still use them. 

[Penguin68]

That a substantial minority of cyclists do not feel bound by normal road rules is self evident - rules which include, inter alia, use of pedestrian pavements (not marked as dual use or as cycle paths) for pedestrians only (with the exceptions of wheeled vehicles/ chairs used by infants and the disabled).

This 'independence of spirit' for those cyclists that use pedestrian pavements very frequently is also seen in their use of highways  - yesterday (on the South Circular!) a cyclist crossed over my path cycling with both arms crossed over (not holding the handlebars) and thus unable to brake immediately should the light have changed or someone got in his way. Clearly a skilled cyclist, but one with no sense either of self preservation or the safety and lives of other - it was dusk by the way and he also had no lights showing!

It is this lack of care for their own or others' safety which is so upsetting - those of us in vehicles which require a licence to use them are at least trained and tested in road awareness and the importance of signalling manoeuvres.

On pavements, in my experience, cyclists jink on and off the pavement to e.g. avoid standing traffic without either signalling or appearing to be aware of whom they are sharing the pavements with - at best they bell (or shout) you down to get out of their way!

When I see a cyclist signal that cyclist is almost inevitably over 50 (and indeed often much older) - when my generation learned to cycle things like signalling intention, following the rules of the road and respect for other road users was drummed into us (or at least me!)  - for our own safety mainly.

Edited May 20, 2024 by Penguin68

[Hen123]

11 hours ago, Penguin68 said:

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by Hen123

[FHfriend]

@malumbu I agree that brenchley gardens is horrible to cycle along. I’ve contacted Southwark Council and TFL about it a couple of times. The Council said the road has been audited and it’s safe. 

Do you know of anyone else who might be able to help? I live in a Lewisham postcode so don’t think a Southwark councillor would be interested in contact from a non Southwark resident. 

[Penguin68]

7 minutes ago, FHfriend said:

I live in a Lewisham postcode so don’t think a Southwark councillor would be interested in contact from a non Southwark resident. 

They're not that interested in Southwark residents unless they're already on the same political (small p) page as them. Unlike our local MP, it must be said.