Weird anonymous "war on motorists" leaflets on Burbage Rd

[HeadNun]

Every single person I know who has a car in London uses public transport where they can. I don't know anyone who drives to work, except tradesmen. I used public transport, shopped online, walked and cycled my whole adult life, until I passed my driving test in my early 40's. I still do those things but having a car has changed my life. I'm now time-rich because I don't have to spend half a day doing a single, basic errand on public transport. I can get out of London and enjoy a freedom I'd never before had. It's expensive, but cheaper than getting trains everywhere.

London air is cleaner than it's ever been, Londoners are mostly good at playing their part in doing their bit for the environment, and car manufacturers are getting better at lowering emissions. I don't see why owning one should be viewed as such a sin. 

Edited January 26, 2024 by HeadNun
appalling grammar

[Rockets]

Malumbu - can you provide any proof that CPZs have ever had an impact on emissions or climate change - or even car ownership for that matter (and I caveat that another great idea you champion for reducing car ownership - LTNs - was shown by Dr Aldred no less, to have INCREASED car ownership by 8% within the LTNs in Brixton since they were installed - go figure hey!).

If the council was really serious about climate change they would do things to stop people having wood-burning stoves (a house near us has just been renovated and clearly the owner has had one put in as the smell of wood smoke is around all the time now and everyone knows how bad they are for the environment the dangers particulate matter pose), emissions from gas boilers or do more to encourage the switch to EVs. But no, they try to dupe people that a CPZ will help the environment - which is utter greenwashing diversionary claptrap. In fact, any time anyone tries to park in a CPZ area I suspect folks spend ages driving round and round in circles in the hope of finding a free non-resident parking bay.

The problem is the council have to try and find a "reason" for the CPZs 9they can't say we need to raise more parking charge revenue) and claiming parking pressure is a wonderfully fanciful as everyone who lives round here knows that, in the main, there are zero problems with parking (maybe you should head over to Dulwich and take a look and see for yourself).

It is going to be interesting to see what happens if the consultation returns an over-whelming "no" to the CPZs (thank goodness they were forced to re-run the consultation with a yes/no response after getting away without doing so in previous consultations). Last time out 68% of East Dulwich residents said no (and there seems to be more parking pressure there so it does seem weird that Cllr McAsh didn't decide to run a consultation in his own constituency this time round too...;-)) and the council went ahead with some anyway so let's see what they do in the village - maybe if they ignore the village folk they'll take to the streets and engage in a bit of civil disobedience - something Cllr McAsh is a big fan of! 

[malumbu]

Interesting article about entitled drivers:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2022/05/17/there-are-just-four-types-of-drivers-and-ending-car-dependency-means-reaching-them-all

It's from America so there will be some differences but worth a read.  The blog classes 25% of Portland drivers as entitled (this is the large SUV who gives a frigg), 30 % as habitual, 5% as reluctant (we would rather not drive but we have to due to X or y - perceived or true), and the rest as  non-drivers

I'd add the first two together, and the article considers that you need the same approach to both of those groups in order to get change.  I expect that there is a larger number in the reluctant group in this area, who need a bigger nudge, or greater inconvenience (to answer your point on evidence Rocks, this group is more likely to give up their car due to a CPZ).

There should also be an anomalous group - they  have no reason to stick up for car drivers, but detesting the local authority.  I expect there are people like this in all the Labour boroughs.

OK let's have some informed debate, paraphrasing the late Caroline Aherne/Mrs Merton.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2022/05/17/there-are-just-four-types-of-drivers-and-ending-car-dependency-means-reaching-them-all

Head mun, by all means drive, but does it really bother you a little additional cost or inconvenience.  I'd disagree as getting out of London, to most places I want to go, is quicker by train.  Kent, quicker by train, Birmingham, quicker by train, Northumbria (where I holidayed last year, much quicker and less stressful by train). Of course there will be places where there are not convenient due to lack of lines, or stations. 

Edited January 27, 2024 by malumbu
Sense check, made some corrections. Glad i sparked debate

[dougiefreeman]

Mal you clearly have strong views however you seem to only have one perspective (your own) with which you use to justify / reason which I don’t think is at all helpful in this discussion.

My perspective, for example, I can say with absolute certainty that getting out of london as a family of four is definitively more economical and significantly more straightforward in our car. And I can also say that having it makes life locally more bearable as well when we need to make a trip to the supermarket, garages where we store stuff, doctors if we have a child with us, nursery if we have to drop one but have the other because our partner is at work etc etc. With the best will in the world, online grocery shopping etc, being human and that doesn’t always equal perfect organisation so although technically not a necessity, there are times where we do ‘need’ to make local journeys in it for non-urgent means. I don’t mind admitting that.

I should also say that both my wife and I are gigging musicians requiring a car to transport larger gear for work - I’ve tried to do it on PT but it’s usually not remotely viable.

The car is expensive to run already and can be an absolute pain in the proverbial when it goes wrong (as it just has with a £1900+ bill) - so believe me when I say we’d rather not have to use it, but life without it would be fraught with complications (we’ve just had a taste of that as it was in the garage for over a week). If the council impose more costs, sure we’ll just suck it up and pay them because we have no choice (that seems to be your solution for people like us right Mal?) - but it will just feel  punitive. I, like HeadNun, don’t agree that owning and using a car is a sin, it is a very necessary part of our lives.

We’re not your typical dulwich millionaires either - we love this area and feel fortunate to live here but we don’t have an endless pot of funds for the council to increasingly dip their hands in. 

Maybe open your mind up a bit Mal and try and think from other peoples’ perspectives. 

 

Oh and before you suggest Zipcar, we’re both members (have been for years, it’s how we went down from 2 cars to 1 being both self employed). The service has deteriorated drastically and the thought of trying to exist purely using it is a bleak one at best, completely impossible at worst.

 

[HeadNun]

8 hours ago, malumbu said:

Interesting article about entitled drivers:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2022/05/17/there-are-just-four-types-of-drivers-and-ending-car-dependency-means-reaching-them-all

It's from America so there will be some differences but worth a read.  The blog classes 25% of Portland drivers as entitled (this is the large SUV who gives a frigg), 30 % as habitual, 5% as reluctant (we would rather not drive but we have to due to X or y - perceived or true), and the rest as  non-drivers

I'd add the first two together, and the article considers that you need the same approach to both of those groups in order to get change.  I expect that there is a larger of the reluctant groups in this area, who need a bigger nudge, or greater inconvenience (to answer your point on evidence Rocks, this group is more likely to give up their car due to a CPZ).

There is should be an anomalous group - the I have no reason to stick up for car drivers beyond my detesting the local authority.  I expect there are people like this in all the Labour boroughs.

OK let's have some informed debate, paraphrasing the late Caroline Aherne/Mrs Merton.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2022/05/17/there-are-just-four-types-of-drivers-and-ending-car-dependency-means-reaching-them-all

Head mun, by all means drive, but does it really bother you a little additional cost or inconvenience.  I'd disagree as getting out of London, to most places I want to go, is quicker by train.  Kent, quicker by train, Birmingham, quicker by train, Northumbria (where I holidayed last year, much quicker and less stressful by train). Of course there will be places where there are not convenient due to lack of lines, or stations. 

Mal, did you actually read what I wrote properly? I said that I've used public transport my entire life, and continue to do so. (I suspect over many years when you owned a car). So it's not necessary for you to lecture me on the virtues and convenience of trains.  I've been to places in the UK that are pretty remote by train, bus and boat, so don't get me started on how it's less stressful, because it's not necessarily. 

Also, have you been to the US much? If you have, and you've visited places outside a few big cities, you'll know there is hardly any public transport system to speak of. Americans don't walk. Even in major cities like Atlanta, people stare at you if you're out on foot. It's so culturally different to the UK that comparing the two countries' car usage is a nonsense. 

I don't think I'm entitled for owning something that makes mine and others' lives easier and often more enjoyable, cars are a fact of life and there's a good reason for that. 

 

[Rockets]

Absolutely spot on, for the overwhelming majority car ownership is (an expensive) necessity. 

For that very reason CPZs do nothing to alter car ownership or have a positive impact on climate change.

And the entitlement I see more often than not comes from those who do subscribe to the view that these measures (and others) alter car ownership etc. but I think that is more a case of those who shout loudest have the most to hide - and that is very evident amongst many in the Dulwich area who personally benefit from the changes but do little to alter their own lifestyle choices.

 

[teddyboy23]

Dougiefreeman  well put mate 

[Spartacus]

11 hours ago, malumbu said:

Interesting article about entitled drivers:

Where has this rethoric "entitled drivers/motorists" come from? 

Is this the latest slogan to batter car owners with? 

It feels like it has come out of Animal Farm and you are playing the part of Old Major or Napoleon in revolting against societal norms and you want to bring us all down to a common level where owning a car is only for the elite of the farm. In the book Napoleon advocated that the happiest animals live simple lives, but then goes on to lead the new elite class. 

Next you will be using the slogan "two wheels good, four wheels bad" 🤔

 

 

Edited January 27, 2024 by Spartacus

[Spartacus]

Naughty southwark 

The nunhead consultation, whilst allowing you to say I don't want a CPZ then forces you to answer question 5 

You can see them saying most people agreed a parking restriction between x and y 🤔

Also the same on the Queens Road one but strangely not the case on the Dulwich Village one. 

Edited January 28, 2024 by Spartacus