Dangerous redesign Hunts Slip Road - Dulwich Estate

[Beauchamp1]

 

I’m a resident who both cycles and drives and safer roads make our community safer for all. 

However, arbitrary measures (I understand that neither DPL nor Kingsdale were properly consulted on the changes) that Dulwich Estate have taken to make Hunts Slip Rd ‘safer’ have made it much worse and someone is going to get seriously hurt.

 

*Cars drive towards a vulnerable and unprotected bike lane in order to park. There are no physical partitions (eg. Curb etc) to separate the bike Lane.

*Doors are opened directly into the bike lane with no protection and limited visibility.
*Pedestrians need to traverse the cycle lane to get back into their parked cars or cross the road

*the bays when filled with parked cars gives no practical visibility of the bike lane for those parked or pedestrians that may not know it’s there and walk into an oncoming bike.

*Fast bikes, are as a result, are still forced to use the main pavement which is extremely busy with kids at x2 schools (though not perfect, at least the pavement users lanes have been better marked)

 

Given the wide pavements each side of the road it seems a ridiculous  place to put an unprotected bike lane that makes all road users more vulnerable, when something truly safety enhancing could have been done.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2024 by Beauchamp1

[malumbu]

Thanks, I'll check it out.  Also do contact Southwark Cyclists. Not fond of Dulwich Estates for a number of reasons.  They could do more to discourage driving noting that many DC kids do cycle to school.

 

[Beauchamp1]

Also note: cars are often reverse parking and in that case there is zero visibility of the bike lane. Cars are also turning on the road and able to ‘use’ the bike lane to do (whether know or by accident) which is very dangerous. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

There has been a real problem with dangerous driving and illegal parking along that stretch, and a lot of kids cycle to the schools along that road, so something definitely needed to be changed; But I agree that (from the picture) it looks like a really poor design. I can see people getting 'doored' for sure. 

There is also room to play with along that stretch / it's quite wide, so I would have thought there is a lot of opportunity to have designed something safe / high quality.

If they just put some wands in, it would be an improvement; discouraging people exiting their cars on that side and providing a degree of separation.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Earl Aelfheah

[bels123]

Wands have been installed now.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

On 06/11/2024 at 10:03, Beauchamp1 said:

*Doors are opened directly into the bike lane with no protection and limited visibility.

When there is no bike lane at all, that's also what happens - drivers are opening their doors right where bike are being ridden. 🤷

[Penguin68]

21 minutes ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

drivers are opening their doors right where bike are being ridden. 🤷

What, the pavement?  How very dare they! 

Edited November 25, 2024 by Penguin68

[malumbu]

It's where the cycle track comes inside parked cars.  Go have a look yourself.

Did the route west (funnily enough sign saying it was shut) and east today.  The wands give you reasonable distance between the doors of parked cars.  If you need speed bumps for cyclists have them bespoke rather than the large ones for cars.  There were a couple of places where there is slight conflict with pedestrians.  Whilst very happy to give way, pedestrians have a responsibility for looking when they are crossing.  All of us cyclists have had experience of pedestrians just crossing a road without looking.  And I've had to learn the hard way as a pedestrian to do this myself rather than relying on listening,  As many of us will have realised when visiting the Netherlands. 

Overall it's a good move

I'm more concerned about the street parking in the area, most of the houses have ample off street parking, is this school staff from Dulwich College?  Do they not have their own parking?  Kingsdale seems to.  And as DC is great at encouraging students to cycle or to be coached in, does the same not apply to their staff?  Could Dulwich estates have a CPZ there, and/or Southwark/Lambeth??

[malumbu]

The parking is for school drop off.  Schools should be discouraging this.  As we all know much of the morning congestion is due to parents driving kids to school. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

It’s really weird that they’ve explicitly marked the parking bays ‘school drop off’. Never seen this before and not sure why it’s necessary or desirable to encourage them to be used for that one specific purpose. 

[Rockets]

I think because they realise that a lot of people drive to drop their children off at school - I suspect they are being pragmatic.

[first mate]

I guess they could also add a few much longer ones, so coaches could use them?

[Earl Aelfheah]

.

Edited December 20, 2024 by Earl Aelfheah

[Earl Aelfheah]

On 19/12/2024 at 07:59, Rockets said:

I think because they realise that a lot of people drive to drop their children off at school - I suspect they are being pragmatic.

Sure, but whilst it may be getting used for that purpose, they don't need to designate it as such. We don't label other short term parking for specific purposes - we don't paint 'grabbing some milk' on parking bays. Just seems a bit odd.

Edited December 20, 2024 by Earl Aelfheah

[CPR Dave]

Why can’t the cyclists just take some responsibility for themselves for once?

[Earl Aelfheah]

non sequitur much?

[first mate]

On 20/12/2024 at 10:14, Earl Aelfheah said:

Sure, but whilst it may be getting used for that purpose, they don't need to designate it as such. We don't label other short term parking for specific purposes - we don't paint 'grabbing some milk' on parking bays. Just seems a bit odd.

You do see dedicated parent and children parking bays in various contexts as well as short term unloading. I must admit though, I have never seen one for "grabbing milk". It reminds me of that infamous urban myth put about by early pro CPZ/LTN folk, where loads of ED residents were allegedly jumping into their cars to drive a few yards to 'grab a latte'.

[march46]

By East Dulwich station many drivers use the loading bay to grab their coffee from Pret opposite. Obviously not what a loading bay is intended for.

[first mate]

Just curious, how do you know that? Are the bays being monitored for driver activity after parking?

[Montaguech]

Driving is reckless on Alleyn Park, residents & parents contacted local councillor for a school street, cycle lane- but councillor has been coming up with endless excuses to not take actions. Hundreds of cyclists, e-cargo bikes , limes, kids on bike , go up and down Alleyn Park amongst rat running and massive parked coaches. Numerous crashes. Appalling behaviour from the council to not take serious action. The 2500 children at Kingsdale don t even have a decent crossing. 

On 14/01/2025 at 12:07, CPR Dave said:

Why can’t the cyclists just take some responsibility for themselves for once?

A Dulwich prep parent reversed her SUV into a Kingsdale student on bike last year. And drove off . 

[CPR Dave]

You sure? Maybe also a student cycled into a car on a stolen lime bike and rode off?