Is Rachel Reeves becoming the new Liz Truss?

[Rockets]

BBC News - Reeves tells businesses no more tax rises as she defends Budget - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33ek51rx57o

[jazzer]

2 hours ago, ianr said:

Where did you get this from?

It came from the 9bn spent on the public above inflation pay award, hence doubling it. Watch the BBC interview of Starmer and Kuenssberg, where Starmer gets absolutely decimated. 

[ianr]

2 hours ago, Sue said:

There's a great big space, but where's the link?! 

in response to   On 19/11/2024 at 08:36, Moovart said:

I know nothing about farming so can't really comment but when I read things like this interesting thread from Guy Shrubsole I am increasingly cynical about those making the loudest noise.  And yes it is a genuine link.

 

I've just had a look at the page source.  It contains a link to a Twitter page that's been automatically embedded in Moovart's post but seems not now operative. So I've dug out the url to have another try, this time without embedding:  https://x.com/guyshrubsole/status/1858490339356533018 .  Seems ok.

 

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

It came from the 9bn spent on the public above inflation pay award, hence doubling it. Watch the BBC interview of Starmer and Kuenssberg, where Starmer gets absolutely decimated. 

in reply to my own "Where did you get this from?" response to your post at https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/353788-is-rachel-reeves-becoming-the-new-liz-truss/?do=findComment&comment=1688310, in which you again spoke of the government's "doubling the national debt".

You seem not to understand the meaning of "national debt".  Might you have been copying someone else's usage?

I'm sorry to hear of Starmer's decimation.

================

And the para below was originally a totally new separate post but has also been merged.  Good night forum.

The above merging of my posts in response to Sue and to Jazzer have been done by the forum system, so there's no point in my trying again to separate them.  I've already tried editing out the merging and reposting the one to jazzer, but ended up with the same forced merge.  Apologies.

Latest edit.  The moral seems to be: don't try making two consecutive posts or they'll be liable to merging.  I've now been able to post a freestanding reply to jazzer's post now that there's an intervening post.

Edited November 25, 2024 by ianr
Attempted correction of unintended post merging

[jazzer]

PetitionCall a General Election

I would like there to be another General Election.

I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election.

Sign this petition

2,500,822 signatures

2,501,025 signatures

Edited November 25, 2024 by jazzer

[ianr]

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

It came from the 9bn spent on the public above inflation pay award, hence doubling it. Watch the BBC interview of Starmer and Kuenssberg, where Starmer gets absolutely decimated. 

in reply to my own "Where did you get this from?" response to your post at https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/353788-is-rachel-reeves-becoming-the-new-liz-truss/?do=findComment&comment=1688310, in which you again spoke of the government's "doubling the national debt".

You seem not to understand the meaning of "national debt".  Have you perhaps been relying on someone else's usage?

I'm sorry to hear of Starmer's decimation.

Edited November 25, 2024 by ianr

[Sephiroth]

"The above merging of my posts in response to Sue and to Jazzer have been done by the forum system, so there's no point in my trying again to separate them"

 

soo aggravating. - has caught me out a few times. I get what the software is trying to do but it really messes with the flow of posts

[Spartacus]

Labours head of communications really should be advising Kier better. 

We've had, so far, the budget will be bad, we've inherited a 20 billion black hole, the NHS is broken, and today "Britain isn't working" in relation to jobs and apprenticeships 

Whilst honesty is a good thing, there are better ways of wording things

Negativity drives negativity in situations like this, especially in business and businesses are what labour requires to grow the economy and offer jobs to the unemployed. 

It does feel like Captain Kier has turned into Private Frazer crying  "we're all doomed" 

[diable rouge]

Seriously, how naïve and juvenile is that petition, talk about sore losers.

Whether you think Labour has broken any of its pre-election manifesto pledges/commitments etc is all down to interpretation and more likely how you voted at the last GE. But regardless of that, has there ever been a government that hasn't met all it's pre-election manifesto pledges/commitments etc?

There were loads of promises made by previous Tory Govs over the past 14 years that they failed to deliver on, where were all the right-whingers calling for a petition then? 

Let's start with taxes. Johnson pledged in 2019  not to increase income tax, VAT or National Insurance. By 2023...

The current Tory-led parliament will oversee the biggest set of tax increases since the Second World War, the country’s leading economic think tank has said.

Tax revenue will amount to 37% of national income by the next election, analysis from the Institute for Fiscal Studies suggests, up from about 33% four years ago.

This is the largest increase since records began in the 1950s. The spike amounts to about £3,500 more per household, though it will not be spread equally.

Then there's Brexit and all that promised but failed to deliver, even Johnson's 2019 'oven ready deal' wasn't oven ready and needed to be amended to get round the issues of a border in the Irish Sea (another broken promise). They couldn't even deliver on the promise of controlling our borders, with immigration shooting up post-Brexit. Not forgetting the addition of red tape rather the the reduction that was promised. There's a thesis to be written on this subject alone. Ditto 'levelling-up', remember that? 

How about 40 new hospitals that later turned out to be  mainly refurbs of existing hospitals? 

300,000 new homes per year were also promised in 2019, a target that pre-election stood at...

The Construction Products Association currently estimates the government will miss its 300,000 homes a year target by 40%.

And so on.

Whisper it, but Govs also do things that weren't in their manifesto like Sunak scrapping HS2 and subsequently trying to 'salt the earth' so that it couldn't be revived by a future Gov. He had no mandate to be PM let alone do something major like that, again, where was the uproar from the right?

You can apply the same double standards to all the confected noise around Labour and the so-called freebies. That, along with this petition is purely political and nothing to do with principals being applied fairly...

[jazzer]

Yep, his manifesto didn't say anything about removing the winter fuel allowance, or that they'd increase employers NI insurance contributions, or that they'd increase inflation, or they'd create a situation whereby employers are reducing their headcounts and not recruiting staff because of the economics they have created, what happened to we'll reduce energy costs by £300 per household, or that they'd increase Inheritance tax on farmers. Its more about what they didn't say they'd do rather than what they said they would do. 

They were not open or transparent about what they'd do once in power. 

They fooled the electorate, in five years time this country will be bankrupt. 

Because so many people are signing the petition asking for a new election, that is because people are fed up with what the Govt are doing to its citizens, including taking away the freedom of speech. 

Edited November 26, 2024 by jazzer

[Sephiroth]

Whoooosh

[malumbu]

Who is signing the petition?  If they are real people, entitled to vote in the UK, guess what?  Mainly Tory and Reform voters.  Not really a surprise. And the opposition have not done themselves any favours with the new leader and others signing it.  Move on, and come back in four years when we have the next GE.

[jazzer]

Four years time this country will be on its knees 

[Sephiroth]

6 hours ago, jazzer said:

Four years time this country will be on its knees 

Several people have tried to point out the inconsistencies in your argument.  Diablo rouge being most recent 

Try and address the points he makes rather than playing chicken licken 

[diable rouge]

Perhaps Jezzer would like to tell us where in the Tory 2019 manifesto it gives a detailed breakdown as to how the tax burden would increase under them to an all-time record high by the end of their term.

Here's a clue, it didn't. 

This idea that Labour should've detailed everything to the nth degree beforehand whereas previous Govs of all hues haven't, is typical of this politically biased  confected outrage.

Labout based their manifesto on the figures freely available to them at the time (from memory an OBR report published around March time). Once in power they then asked the OBR to revisit the figures and, surprise surprise, they found a 'hidden' £9 Billion that needed to be added to the existing 'black hole' deficit.  

The bottom line in simple terms is the Tories maxed out UK Plc's credit card and went well over the spending limit (Jezzer, you reckon Labour will make the country bankrupt and it will be on its knees? Keep up, the Tories have already done that). 

Some of the 'overspend' was undoubtedly due to external factors e.g. Covid and Ukraine, but some was self-inflicted e.g. Brexit, which I read somewhere trumps both in terms of long-term economic damage. Then there's issues like the unfunded tax cuts of Truss' lamentable budget, which among other things caused a spike in interest rates = bad for consumers and business. Where's the outage at that from the likes of Jezzer? 

Although I don't agree with everything Labour has done, this idea that their budget is an economic disaster despite there being no run on the stock markets or £, that the Bank of England hasn't been forced to make a fiscal intervention in order to stop pension funds going belly-up, or there's been a spike in interest rates leading to millions of borrowers having to pay more for their mortgages. business loans etc, all of which happened under a Tory Gov and is still affecting people to this day, is laughable.

Carry on wearing your Tory blinkers Jezzer while the rest of us cough-up for their economic delinquency...

[jazzer]

It's Jazzer, not Jezzer.

Thought you'd said you'd given up and so were going no longer respond to my posts, that didn't last long, cause you just can't help yourself. And their you go blaming the last Govt just like the three stooges continue to do. 

I agree that what Truss did was terrible, that's why she got booted out of office after 44 days.

But that was then and this is now. 

Look at the budget, the impact of raising employers NO contributions means that employers will either reduce the number of people they employ, unemployment will then rise which will result in an increase in the amount of benefits the DWP has to pay. The alternative is that employers will increase the cost of things they sell. That has a knock on effect that things become even more expensive and so inflation duly increases. A further effect is that employers don't expand their businesses and so don't recruit new staff. It turned into s circle of events repeating themselves. The sad thing is that you can't see the long term damage Reeves budget is and continues to cause. You say I'm blinkered, I believe you are. We are never going to agree. 

But at least before Labour took Office inflation was down to 2% and the levels of unemployment had never been lower.  

Edited November 27, 2024 by jazzer

[Earl Aelfheah]

Labour won a landslide victory less than 5 months ago. Those demanding ‘another go’, need to grow up. Labour are in for the next 5 years or so, you’ll get your chance then. The petition is embarrassing.

[Sephiroth]

Ah yes.  British leaders saying bad things about foreign leaders 

 

which is why jazzer was so outraged by truss calling macron an enemy 

 

oh wait 

[Rockets]

Clearly there is going to be no election but it was interesting listening to the Rest Is Politics this week where they discuss this and they did a really good breakdown on the risk to Rachel Reeves and this budget and that is a lack of growth and no clear plan on where growth is going to come from. Rory Stewart breaks down, very coherently, why Labour have a huge battle ahead and how their policies and budget could become a problem and echos much of which has been said on here (but without the raw emotion!!! ;-))

They also said, and this is a big issue for Labour, that Keir's approval ratings are now at -38 (and those are Liz Truss levels) and, at the same point in his tenure Tony Blair was at +68.

Well worth a listen, especially if people want to hear balanced discussion around a variety of subjects. 

 

[Sephiroth]

24 minutes ago, Rockets said:

Clearly there is going to be no election but it was interesting listening to the Rest Is Politics this week where they discuss this and they did a really good breakdown on the risk to Rachel Reeves and this budget and that is a lack of growth and no clear plan on where growth is going to come from. Rory Stewart breaks down, very coherently, why Labour have a huge battle ahead and how their policies and budget could become a problem and echos much of which has been said on here (but without the raw emotion!!! ;-))

They also said, and this is a big issue for Labour, that Keir's approval ratings are now at -38 (and those are Liz Truss levels) and, at the same point in his tenure Tony Blair was at +68.

Well worth a listen, especially if people want to hear balanced discussion around a variety of subjects. 

 

well yep - all of that is true and Labour boxing themselves in on Brexit red lines is counter to their growth narrative as well  (albeit semi-understandable given what would happened to the media and likes of Jazzer if they are even perceived to soften them)

choppy waters ahead - but that would be true of any govt picking up the pieces and in no way validated the petition hysteria

[Earl Aelfheah]

Yeh, I heard Badenoch banging on about how 'nothing works' at PMQs, as if this was a charge that could reasonably be laid at the feet of a recently elected Labour government. She's right that things are in a terrible state, but it was her government which left the country so. Labour have a huge uphill struggle to try and halt the decline of public services and restore our finances. People need to wake up to the legacy that the Tories have left us.

[Sephiroth]

The long-standing narrative "I wish the politicians would treat us like grown-ups" doesn't stand up very well when exposed to reality 

[malumbu]

is it just me but is anyone else bothered about the branding on the screen when Newsnight is on, and now they have introduced a QR code linking you to I-player.  Are they trying to catch the elusive young audience, I suppose you could argue that if they looked to the Beeb for info rather than X, FB and the like they would be better informed.

But I find it annoying.

And it didn't happen under a Tory Government.

[diable rouge]

20 hours ago, jazzer said:

It's Jazzer, not Jezzer.

Thought you'd said you'd given up and so were going no longer respond to my posts, that didn't last long, cause you just can't help yourself. And their you go blaming the last Govt just like the three stooges continue to do. 

It's there not their...

Just now, diable rouge said:

It's there not their...

I'd love to know when I inferred I  ''were going no longer respond to my posts, that didn't last long,''. 

 

[Sephiroth]

16 minutes ago, diable rouge said:

It's there not their...

I'd love to know when I inferred I  ''were going no longer respond to my posts, that didn't last long,''. 

 

Think he confused you with me RD

[diable rouge]

On 25/11/2024 at 23:28, ianr said:

in reply to my own "Where did you get this from?" response to your post at https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/353788-is-rachel-reeves-becoming-the-new-liz-truss/?do=findComment&comment=1688310, in which you again spoke of the government's "doubling the national debt".

You seem not to understand the meaning of "national debt".  Have you perhaps been relying on someone else's usage?

I'm sorry to hear of Starmer's decimation.

Yep, national debt is different to deficit.

National debt was £800 Billion in 2010 when the Tories first took office.

Thy left office with it standing at £2.6 Trillion... 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by diable rouge