CPZ in Dulwich Village ward to go live on January 6

[march46]

Or the most likely option is it’s simply an error (as that bit of Calton Ave is resident permit only) and the sign needs replacing to remove the mention of a 1 hr max. 

[Rockets]

If it's an error who is signing this stuff off....didn't the Townley one have a timing error on it too when they first went in with the bus gate?

[Earl Aelfheah]

On 10/01/2025 at 21:12, march46 said:

Or the most likely option is it’s simply an error (as that bit of Calton Ave is resident permit only) and the sign needs replacing to remove the mention of a 1 hr max. 

My strong belief (in general, but with Southwark Council in particular) is that things like this are nearly always the result of incompetence rather than conspiracy.  

Edited January 13, 2025 by Earl Aelfheah

[march46]

The good news is the signs on Calton Ave have been amended to remove the mention of a 1 hour max. 

[Kurt_Lane]

There was a sea of parking fines on windscreens this morning on Calton Avenue.

Edited January 15, 2025 by Kurt_Lane

[Rockets]

Yes the council revenue-generation, sorry, enforcement teams are circling every day now.

[CPR Dave]

Need them to raise money to pay for the corrected road signs no doubt.

[first mate]

We still don't know much about where much of this surplus revenue is going? Have not been able to get a breakdown yet.

[Rockets]

Are those signs (that have now been amended) the only signs notifying people that they are entering a CPZ? I saw the one at DV end above the beacon for the crossing and could not see any others.

[sandyman]

4 hours ago, Kurt_Lane said:

There was a sea of parking fines on windscreens this morning on Calton Avenue.

Yes, three is the record so far. What are the rules if your car is parked somewhere unrestricted and then a CPZ is brought in while you are away? Asking for my friend Giles who parked his Cortina in an Athens side street in 1986 and hasn't had time to collect it yet. 

[malumbu]

A mate of mine left his car in Cambridge and had it impounded.  He was quite proud that the local rag featured it as running up a ginormous fine.  That was in the 1990s, perhaps it is still there 

[Glemham]

5 hours ago, Rockets said:

Are those signs (that have now been amended) the only signs notifying people that they are entering a CPZ? I saw the one at DV end above the beacon for the crossing and could not see any others.

Yes,  see my post with photos from January 8th. The two signs have now been amended to remove the ‘one hour only’ notice.  I understand that in nearby Gilkes Crescent which is now a CPZ as requested by the residents, the signage is the same.

Rumour has it that Southwark has outsourced the ‘design’ of these CPZ areas to a private company.

[Rockets]

I had a look earlier and those can't be the only signage they are putting in surely? Two tiny signs well out of eye sight and natural eye-line if you are driving and then no other signage for the length of the road and no bays marked out.

Surely not? There must be something else planned? If that's it then I defy anyone to try and defend the council on this rollout and not agree that this has been designed to catch people out.

Loads of cars have been plastered with PCNs and are those warning letters or PCNs that trigger warning letters in the first few weeks?

Regardless, a lot of people get very upset getting parking tickets and repeatedly putting tickets on the same car day after day seems ludicrous and could cause someone returning to their car a lot of distress, especially as if they are not parked adjacent to the two tiny signs (and thinking oh did I check the sign way above eye-line on the pole) they would have no idea they are in a CPZ.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Glemham said:

Rumour has it that Southwark has outsourced the ‘design’ of these CPZ areas to a private company

Ha ha, that already sounds like the council trying to find someone else to blame for the "oversights". Ultimately someone from the council has to sign this off and they have to accept responsibility if anything goes wrong (they won't of course).

[sandyman]

The record is now four...

Also the sign at the Woodwarde Road junction with Calton is possibly even better hidden than the one at the Townley end. And there are no bays indicated by lines (except the disabled bays), which would usually be a hint to go and check the signs. (where my mother lived in Essex for example, you couldn't park on her road between 1pm & 2pm and there were yellow lines all the way down the street, so you'd always check the signs)

Edited January 16, 2025 by sandyman

[Rockets]

They have to be adding more signage as if you were driving there is no way you would see that sign - especially as your attention has to be on the crossing and in a car the sign is so high-up you would not be able to see it.

There are none of the usual council signs saying any further work is due to take place - do any of the council-fans know whether this is still work in progress - I would have expected someone to have jumped to the council's defence by now from those who are close to the council and their plans?

[sandyman]

4 minutes ago, Rockets said:

They have to be adding more signage as if you were driving there is no way you would see that sign - especially as your attention has to be on the crossing and in a car the sign is so high-up you would not be able to see it.

There are none of the usual council signs saying any further work is due to take place - do any of the council-fans know whether this is still work in progress - I would have expected someone to have jumped to the council's defence by now from those who are close to the council and their plans?

Shouldn't all works be done before a CPZ can go live? 

[first mate]

No, you want to try and catch out as many unwitting drivers as possible before word gets round and signage is improved. It is a must to monetise confusion and ambiguity, while the option is there.

[Rockets]

You would expect so - especially if they are ticketing cars with such frequency.

[Glemham]

Until next Monday the tickets are warnings, fining in earnest starts on Monday. If you don’t know the area, have been driving sensibly and not looking up at signs that require you to get out of  your vehicle to read them and park in Calton during the proscribed hours, would you have a valid reason to appeal?
Please could someone/anyone from the Council explain the rationale behind this system?

[Rockets]

Perhaps it's a revenue-generating trap - (cue council apologists any second now....)

What I don't understand is that on Townley there are repeater boards making it very clear parking times and hours and clear road markings which would be very difficult to miss. This is Cllrs Newens and Leemings patch isn't it?

[Kurt_Lane]

The parking zone does not appear to agree with the Southwark website as this new parking zone does not have bays. Notably, it also does not have big entry signs that older zones appear to have had.

CPZ signs

Our newest controlled parking zones do not have entry signs or single yellow lines. In these areas, the kerb is either marked with:

• a parking bay, where you can park
• double yellow lines, where you cannot park

This makes parking rules clearer and avoids the need for big entry signs.

Other zones have at least one entry sign. The law says this sign only needs to be on one side of the road. We do not need to put entry signs between zones with the same hours.

Edited January 16, 2025 by Kurt_Lane

[march46]

See Restricted Parking Zone https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking-streets-and-transport/parking/places-park/restricted-parking-zones

[Rockets]

Hang on, so are you saying this isn't in fact a CPZ but a RPZ? Did we not have a consultation on CPZs - were RPZs ever mentioned?

I am sorry but if those two signs are the only notification that you are entering a CPZ/RPZ and you can get fined for parking there then that is an absolute joke and clearly designed to generate revenue by not making it clear.

If this is the case then how the council get away with this is beyond me. It's entrapment.

[Kurt_Lane]

42 minutes ago, march46 said:

See Restricted Parking Zone https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking-streets-and-transport/parking/places-park/restricted-parking-zones

Thanks!

 

It still reads that bay markings are required. Possibly these have yet to be done locally but I hope they are added before penalties start being applied. 

[Glemham]

Have no recollection of any mention of RPZs by the Dulwich Village Councillors, Margy Newens and Richard Leeming. This is very definitely their patch.

Again if you are a stranger to the area how are you supposed to know that you can’t park there at certain times. How would you know where to go for a permit?

Are RPZs the future? I do like the irony that it’s to minimalise the need for too many signs and street furniture, when not a million yards away at the junction there’s a plethora of signs and cycle racks …………