Why are we so short sighted ?

[Spartacus]

Strange title I grant you but just came across this article talking about the extensive network of electric trolly buses which replaced the older network of electric trams 

https://metro.co.uk/2025/02/12/map-reveals-forgotten-london-trolleybus-network-big-tube-22538149/

Strikes me that we were better off,  pollution wise, with the old network of electric vehicles and only now are we returning to electric buses. 

Don't you just wish that the trams or trolly buses were kept and diesel buses were never introduced? 

Now it's too late as setting up a tram network is far too expensive compared to the relative cost if they maintained what they had. 

[Penguin68]

The old trolley network had the disadvantage that the tracks could very easily 'capture' cycle wheels, leading to accidents. 

[malumbu]

Go to the London Transport Museum and check out the old tram, the buses of those days were far more comfortable and efficient.  Others argue that the fixed tracks did not provide the flexibility of bus routes, and was causing congestion as motor traffic increased on the roads.  Trams were dropped from almost every part of the UK during the 50s.

On the continent the road network is often extensive enough to maintain a tram network and/or planned economies ie Eastern Europe often led to extensive public transport networks.  Visit Budapest where all modes are nicely coordinated.

[Penguin68]

You will also find that most European cities that support a tram network are much smaller and more concentrated (and frequently flatter, but not Lisbon) than London, making such a network more viable, as does the Boulevard redevelopment of many cities with much wider main thoroughfaress allowing proper space for trams. 

[Spartacus]

  On 14/02/2025 at 10:57, Penguin68 said:

The old trolley network had the disadvantage that the tracks could very easily 'capture' cycle wheels, leading to accidents. 

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There was that risk with trams, bit trolly buses didn't need tracks.

As in all things, there has to be some self responsibility not to cycle along the tracks this avoiding the risk of getting captured. 

  On 14/02/2025 at 11:26, Penguin68 said:

You will also find that most European cities that support a tram network are much smaller and more concentrated (and frequently flatter, but not Lisbon) than London, making such a network more viable, as does the Boulevard redevelopment of many cities with much wider main thoroughfaress allowing proper space for trams. 

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As the old saying goes, size doesn't matter Frankfurt for example has an extensive tram network and it's about half the size of london but just as busy 

Edited February 14 by Spartacus

[Penguin68]

  On 14/02/2025 at 12:20, Spartacus said:

As the old saying goes, size doesn't matter Frankfurt for example has an extensive tram network and it's about half the size of london but just as busy 

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That was my point, the smaller the city the more cost effective and useful a tram or trolley network is, London is too large and dispersed. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

There was a proposal for a cross river tram, running from Camden to Camberwell some years back. We obviously have a fairly extensive tram system running from Croydon to Wimbledon. 

[Spartacus]

  On 14/02/2025 at 13:01, Earl Aelfheah said:

There was a proposal for a cross river tram, running from Camden to Camberwell some years back. We obviously have a fairly extensive tram system running from Croydon to Wimbledon. 

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It would have terminated in Peckham not Camberwell and was blocked by vocal locals both along the route and locally who didn't want a tram depot in Peckham (despite the good ot would bring) 

Such a shame it didn't happen 

[Earl Aelfheah]

Yes, you're right, it would have run to Peckham, with a branch to Brixton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_River_Tram

[Nigello]

  On 14/02/2025 at 13:15, Spartacus said:

It would have terminated in Peckham not Camberwell and was blocked by vocal locals both along the route and locally who didn't want a tram depot in Peckham (despite the good ot would bring) 

Such a shame it didn't happen 

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Wiki: 

The project was cancelled by then mayor of London Boris Johnsonin 2008 due to funding problems. A 2016 review of the CRT plan by subsequent mayor Sadiq Khan concluded that the CRT project would not be reopened at that time.^[1]