first mate Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 It was signed off by him last month and the document also indicated a statutory consultation in June. So far nothing. I do not think the leadership debacle, which was some time later, will affect that decision. However, I wonder if he will also refuse to serve under Sarah King? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1713936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Yes indeed, will he still sit in cabinet under her? Or does she get to do a reshuffle? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1713974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 15/06/2025 at 19:44, Rockets said: according to the active travel lobbyists on here This is really unhelpful. Who are these 'active travel lobbyists'? Is it just anyone with a different opinion to you? Should everyone start referring to 'inactive travel lobbyists'? Why not just engage with substance of what people say? 1 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 @Earl Aelfheah perhaps everyone should get badges....;-) I am happy to proclaim that I am not an active travel lobbyist! Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Who are these active travel lobbyists, and what is the lobbying activity you’re suggesting they’ve taken part in? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 It has been observed that the lcc (london cycling campaign) have influenced local consultations, so maybe that is what is being refered to here ? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) ‘Perhaps’ 🙄. It’s nothing to do with LCC being consulted alongside a number of other stakeholder groups. The insinuation (it’s always innuendo and weasel words, never straightforward), as you well know, is that commentators on this forum (basically anyone with a different opinion), are part of a co-ordinated lobbying organisation. It’s a really transparent attempt to dismiss people’s views as not their own, but as part of some undeclared, organised campaign group. I’m fed up of these types of tactics. Engage with the substance. @Rockets if you want to accuse posters on here of something, be a big boy and spell it out, so that they may respond. Don't be so cowardly. I'm so sick of these rhetorical tactics, constant unevidenced claims, doubling down on false statements when challenged, deflections, insinuations etc. There is just no substance to any of it. It's all just an endless 5 year grievance. Edited July 18 by Earl Aelfheah Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 15 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said: if you want to accuse posters on here of something, be a big boy and spell it out, so that they may respond. Don't be so cowardly. What that some posters on here act like active travel lobbyists...I dont need my big boy pants to post that...goodness me! I think that is pretty obvious - lets also ground this conversation on the nonsense accounts set-up like LTNBooHoo, RaptorTruckMan etc which were just set-up (I suspect probsbly by posters with other aliases) to troll anyone who dares disagree with the active travel propaganda posted by some. 16 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said: It's all just an endless 5 year grievance. ....as I was saying... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rockets said: What that some posters on here act like active travel lobbyists Here we go. You didn't say they 'act like active travel lobbyists'. You said they were active travel lobbyists. Well I'm asking you to spell out exactly who on this forum you're accusing of being an active travel lobbyist? What organisation do they work for and where is your evidence? Edited July 18 by Earl Aelfheah Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I would definitely categorise you as an active travel lobbyist (in the same way I have no doubt you categorise me as anti-LTN) given your propensity for defending and promoting anything and everything the council says on the matter and the way you aggressively, and relentlessly, argue with anyone who dares suggest a different perspective. To be fair you do also claim to subscribe to a paid-for service to receive Anna Goodman reports on LTNs which does suggest more than a casual interest in the matter! 😉 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Rockets said: To be fair you do also claim to subscribe to a paid-for service to receive Anna Goodman reports on LTNs which does suggest more than a casual interest in the matter! 😉 I'm not subscribed to a paid-for service to 'receive Anna Goodman' reports. I'm subscribed to the BMJ. I actually have a general subscription which give me access to a number of academic journals. 11 minutes ago, Rockets said: your propensity for defending and promoting anything and everything the council says This is nonsense. I have criticised the council many times. This is just another example of your binary mindset. You can agree with the council on some things and not others. It's not a football match. One can use their critical faculties to come to judgements on individual matters (I know, it's a radical concept). 11 minutes ago, Rockets said: I would definitely categorise you as an active travel lobbyist (in the same way I have no doubt you categorise me as anti-LTN) These are not remotely the same things. Saying someone is a lobbyist, suggests that they are part of and (by implication) acting on behalf of an organisation. It implies a hidden agenda. Saying someone has an opinion that they've openly expressed is hardly the same thing. I would ask you what organisation you are accusing me of 'lobbying' on behalf of and where your evidence for this is (again, I know the idea of evidencing your statements, or even attempting too is 'radical', but see if you can try). 11 minutes ago, Rockets said: the way you aggressively, and relentlessly, argue with anyone who dares suggest a different perspective. Nope. Very happy to listen to other opinions, but not to indulge an individual who is clearly acting in bad faith. Edited July 18 by Earl Aelfheah Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 You dont have to be a Lobbyist to be a lobbyist! Would you not agree that many of your posts are lobbying for the benefits of active travel/LTNs and that you take strong positions against anyone who does not subscribe to your particular view on the matter? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted Monday at 12:36 Share Posted Monday at 12:36 (edited) On 18/07/2025 at 16:08, Rockets said: You dont have to be a Lobbyist to be a lobbyist! If you're going to accuse people of being lobbyists (which suggests that they're part of an organisation), then you need to say which organisation they are part of and provide evidence. Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more lobbyist /ˈlɒbɪɪst/ noun a person who takes part in an organized attempt to influence legislators. Edited Monday at 12:36 by Earl Aelfheah Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
first mate Posted Monday at 20:59 Author Share Posted Monday at 20:59 (edited) Still no news about the statutory consultation for the proposed reduced MGS CPZ- as per recommendations approved by the Cabinet Member in June. has anyone heard anything about this? Edited Monday at 20:59 by first mate 1 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted Monday at 21:19 Share Posted Monday at 21:19 (edited) @first mate with this administration silence is often defeaning and a sure sign something is up. Or it could be caught up in the Cllr McAsh chaos. @Earl Aelfheah what happens when you use lobbyist as a verb.....? Edited Monday at 21:22 by Rockets 1 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted Tuesday at 08:10 Share Posted Tuesday at 08:10 When you refer to someone expressing an opinion on a local parking scheme as one of 'the active travel lobbyists', it is very clear what you are doing. You are not engaging with a view that has been expressed by an individual, you're trying to imply that they are part of an organised (yet undeclared) group of 'campaigners'. It's a way of insinuating that their opinion is not their own, but that they are part of a wider agenda. It's really transparent and often used tactic by conspiracy minded populists and internet trolls. And the fact that when challenged, you tried to deflect by subtly changing your own words to say: On 18/07/2025 at 15:02, Rockets said: What that some posters on here act like active travel lobbyists ... You didn't say they 'act like active travel lobbyists'. You said they were active travel lobbyists. And now you're again playing semantics. I'm fed up with these constant bad faith tactics. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPR Dave Posted Tuesday at 08:12 Share Posted Tuesday at 08:12 Earl A, you lobby very hard on here for active travel measures. Are you saying that you only do that on the EDf and never in real life? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted Tuesday at 08:18 Share Posted Tuesday at 08:18 (edited) 9 minutes ago, CPR Dave said: Earl A, you lobby very hard on here for active travel measures. Are you saying that you only do that on the EDf and never in real life? I don't 'lobby' for active travel measures. I do take the view that people exercising more would be a good thing - which presumably is something you would also advocate? Does that also make you an 'lobbyist'? You also know exactly why Rocket's repeatedly dismisses opinions he disagrees with as those of 'lobbyists'. It's not very subtle and you're not stupid. If I repeatedly dismissed anyone with different views to my own as part of the fossil fuel lobby, would you think that was good faith rhetoric? Edited Tuesday at 08:22 by Earl Aelfheah Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPR Dave Posted Tuesday at 08:23 Share Posted Tuesday at 08:23 Yes I advocate and lobby in the real world for libertarian measures regarding car ownership and road dues for motorists. do you lobby in the real world for your preferred CpZs and LTNs or do you only do so in this forum? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
first mate Posted Tuesday at 08:25 Author Share Posted Tuesday at 08:25 Forgive me if I try to get this thread back on subject; does anyone know if there are plans for a statutory consultation around proposed MGS CPZ? This was slated in the last council documents I have seen for June/July. It would be a cynical move for this to happen when lots of people are away on summer holidays. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted Tuesday at 09:05 Share Posted Tuesday at 09:05 (edited) 40 minutes ago, first mate said: It would be a cynical move for this to happen when lots of people are away on summer holidays. This is exactly the kind of position I would expect you to take as part of the fossil fuel lobby. Edited Tuesday at 09:06 by Earl Aelfheah Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted Tuesday at 10:10 Share Posted Tuesday at 10:10 See how easy that is? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
first mate Posted Tuesday at 10:20 Author Share Posted Tuesday at 10:20 Not sure what your last comment means? Aside from that, I take it you think the possibility of holding a consultation over the school holidays when lots of people are away, is a great idea? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin68 Posted Tuesday at 11:01 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:01 1 hour ago, Earl Aelfheah said: I would expect you to take as part of the fossil fuel lobby. There is no evidence that I can see that anyone on these boards is employed by, or advocates for, the oil and gas industries. You are conflating someone who cares for those who are owners and users of private cars, however powered, and inter alia deplores misuse of the roads by cyclists who break normal road rules, with a complete different sort of industry advocate. Some, but not all, private cars use fossil fuels, certainly, as many use steel, and plastics, and leather. You may as well accuse your opponents of being advocates for big steel, or big engineering, as advocates for fossil fuels. You just hope to gain sympathy for your own advocacy by associating your opponents with what you believe will be a dog whistle cause which will help praise your position. 1 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Aelfheah Posted Tuesday at 11:13 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:13 Whooosh 13 minutes ago, Penguin68 said: There is no evidence that I can see that anyone on these boards is employed by, or advocates for, the oil and gas industries That's right. It's almost as though dismissing people whose views you disagree with as 'lobbyists' is just being cynical. 1 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/357947-melbourne-grove-south-cpz-consultation/page/16/#findComment-1714574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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