Time to open Wood Vale and Underhill to right turns from and into the South Circ

[malumbu]

The closure many years ago had a detrimental impact sending traffic up Honor Oak Road; in parts a glorified farm track and of course the location of Fairlawn school, which some of you may, or may have, sent your kids to.  The wide leafy boulevards of Wood Vale and Underhill Road are much better designed as through roads.  @Rockets perhaps could you check your sources to see whether it was a botched consultation by TfL or Southwark that led to this?  I sense that this would be a better thing to campaign on, and improvements to Brenchley Gardens, than other recent road changes by Southwark and TfL

Edited March 19, 2025 by malumbu

[Moovart]

You cannot be serious!!!

Not a snowball's chance that that will happen.  

It's really dangerous turning right out of Underhill Road onto the A205 although some people do still do it. Wood vale even worse. 

[Northern Star]

I sympathise Malumbu. Closing a road usually results in displaced traffic (unless it miraculously evaporates) 

[Rockets]

 Northern....brilliant! 

[malumbu]

Do you have anything useful to say? Otherwise just stick to your usual hobby horses.  Be my guest. I thought a time of reflection may have changed things.  It appears not to have done. 

[Penguin68]

Underhill (I live in it) already now has rush hour queues, particularly in the evening, of traffic trying to get onto the only East;West route in Dulwich left after the Village closures, the A205  - to further allow right turn queues into it, presumably for the morning rush for traffic heading intro East Dulwich up the London Road would be additionally intolerable - we have the overspill already from the now traffic free LTN routes.

Of course such right hand turns would be dangerous across the A205 at that point, and would need road re-configuration and yet another set of lights - which I'm sure cyclists would ignore as usual. In this case almost certainly to their personal detriment. And right hand turns into Underhill would also, I'm guessing, make a complete mess of the crossing configuration now being worked (I use that word quite wrongly) on at the Lordship Lane/ A205 junction.

[Guest]

I was at the Langton Rise P13 bus stop on Monday morning, time wise about 08.45am. I couldn't believe the amount of traffic going both ways and at some speed. I thought Underhill rd was a fairly quiet apart from the P13, how wrong I was.   

[Penguin68]

It used to be until the Dulwich LTN was implemented. Now it's one of the few routes to the South Circular. 

[malumbu]

It's busy in the rush hour, it always has been.  it will return to normal when the various roadworks have been completed.

Some people do speed round there.  It was my commute for many years.

P13 is a very underrated bus and wish it was more frequent.

[Rockets]

The LTN created a big surge in Underhill being used as a displacement route around the congestion on Lordship Lane heading to the A205 - it's why many of us accused the council of deliberately not monitoring Underhill post LTN as they knew a huge volume of traffic was being displaced that way and why we said their monitoring was massively flawed - we were not wrong.

 

 

 

 

[malumbu]

@RocketsCan you please not ambush this thread.  You, and your supporters, have plenty of other threads to talk about vehicle counters, and other esoteric stuff.

I'm talking about three loosely parallel roads that could give access to the South Circular from traffic, from Peckham, parts of East Dulwich and the like

One is essentially a glorified farm track - Wood Vale.  This is in Lewisham.  Traveling from Forest Hill Road involves up a steep hill, right at a nasty junction, or cutting through the Horniman area, full of narrow residential roads.

The other two roads, Wood Vale and Underhill Road, are wide, and some would say leafy (a term often used on some threads to describe roads in the Village. They are in Southwark.

You can no longer turn right into, and from the South Circular into the Southwark Roads.  You would have been able to once.

Lights were introduced on the SCR/Honor Oak after changes due to a pinch point.

The junctions with Wood Vale and Underhill are no worse in layout than that with HOR.  One could argue that they are better as there isn't a filling station/shop on the junction which complicates things.  Buses already turn into and out of one of them.  Lights could be introduced and phased with the junction with Sydenham Hill. 

This is not about closing roads, or banning cars, but just a more sensible layout.

And @Penguin you have many other threads to complain about cyclists so leave it out on this one please.

 

 

[Penguin68]

9 hours ago, malumbu said:

And @Penguin you have many other threads to complain about cyclists so leave it out on this one please.

I actually live in Underhill, you don't even live in Southwark. I recognise that you are trolling here, but sometimes you step over the mark, as you have done here. 

[malumbu]

It's a forum to discuss issues rather than hurl insults.  I live very close to you so I am very well informed.

If you give me your description I'll give you a cheery hello or wave when I cycle past, buying our paper from Wood Vale News, having a shandy at the Moor Park Hotel, catching a train from Honor Oak Station (not HOP), a Sunday stroll around Camberwell Old Cemetery, or when we are at the bus stop waiting for the P13, or 363.

Edited March 21, 2025 by malumbu

[Penguin68]

As the Moor Park Hotel has been closed and converted to flats for at least 10-15 years, and was a seedy dive for some years before that, its glory days long past, you either have a Tardis or you are not as much a local frequenter as you imply. Oh, and Wood Vale News has been closed almost as long. Newspapers are still available from the Wood Vale supermarket. 

Edited March 21, 2025 by Penguin68

[first mate]

21 hours ago, Rockets said:

The LTN created a big surge in Underhill being used as a displacement route around the congestion on Lordship Lane heading to the A205 - it's why many of us accused the council of deliberately not monitoring Underhill post LTN as they knew a huge volume of traffic was being displaced that way and why we said their monitoring was massively flawed - we were not wrong.

 

 

 

 

Oh yes, I remember now there were question marks as to why Underhill was not being monitored. Had forgotten that.

[malumbu]

On 21/03/2025 at 14:26, Penguin68 said:

As the Moor Park Hotel has been closed and converted to flats for at least 10-15 years, and was a seedy dive for some years before that, its glory days long past, you either have a Tardis or you are not as much a local frequenter as you imply. Oh, and Wood Vale News has been closed almost as long. Newspapers are still available from the Wood Vale supermarket. 

The sub post office has gone too, which is a bit disappointing.  I'll start a thread on it.

I stayed on the 363 today up Underhill and Wood Vale as this gave me a good view of potential road changes.

It would be straight forward to accommodate a right turn into Underhill, as the bus currently does, and with the lights at the Harvester this would make traffic flows, under normal conditions, tidal, allowing relatively easy right turns.  I'm unsure if this is a massive benefit, probably useful to drivers who live in the immediate area, and would take some traffic off the right turn onto Honor Oak Road, which is a bit messy.

Not so sure how you would accommodate right turns out of Underhill.  Right turns into and out of Wood Vale more problematic due to the proximity of the junction with Sydenham Hill.

Pending further views here I will write to TfL with my issues and potential changes.

[Rockets]

@malumbu are you really advocating for the removal of what is, ostensibly, an LTN? And are you going to lobby for this based on the displacement caused by said "LTN"? Did I wake up in some sort of parallel universe where everyone changes side....? 😉

[malumbu]

Don't be daft.  They are through roads with right turn restrictions.  Please stick to other threads unless you have a view on whether the junctions should be changed.  I raised these issues in earlier threads but you did not engage.  Similarly on Brenchley Gardens.

There are 100s of roads with similar restrictions across London

[Northern Star]

33 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Don't be daft.  They are through roads with right turn restrictions.  Please stick to other threads unless you have a view on whether the junctions should be changed.  I raised these issues in earlier threads but you did not engage.  Similarly on Brenchley Gardens.

There are 100s of roads with similar restrictions across London

Would they not have been restricted to either reduce traffic or because it was dangerous to turn into (or both?).

So why would they reverse it? Not sure I follow.

 

On 20/03/2025 at 15:21, malumbu said:

 

[Rockets]

@malumbu is the displaced traffic using Honor Oak Road? It makes sense it would be.

Can anyone remember when the no right turn was implemented? I dont remember it being anything but.

[Moovart]

This thread is totally pointless.  

[Guest]

Not quite, it gives two posters the chance to go hammer and tongs at it and spare the rest of us the pain of watching the fiasco spiral down the road. or should that be right turn or LTN or something else. 

[Rockets]

I actually thought this thread was an early April Fool's joke!

[malumbu]

If you haven't got anything to contribute then please clear off.  Ironic that the T word has been used regularly against me, but now three posts in a row that you could apply this comment to.  If you have no interest in this discussion then don't read it, rather than snide/puerile comments. 

I was hoping that someone who actually used the roads may have a view.  But lets face it there are about twenty people who post on roads issues and most of you just do this as you have enormous bees in your bonnet, rather want a constructive debate.

So in summary a right turn into Underhill could be reintroduced from the South Circular without too much bother.  The right turn from Underhill would probably be more useful but more problematic as this would entail some major road changes, maybe  traffic lights, filters and the like, although this could be easily meshed with the Harvester junction.  

I doubt if there would be more traffic using this route, but more spread out, with some convenience both to those on local roads and some a bit further a field and particular benefits to Honor Oak Road.

A few times a years there are road works in Forest Hill and this buggers up the whole of the 'Horniman' area which becomes grid locked as Honor Oak Road, Melford Road, Devonshire Road, Honor Oak and any alternatives to get onto the A205 are solid,  A right turn from Underhill may alleviate some of this, but I expect as this would only have modest capacity the same would happen.  Such congestion is just part and package of living in London.

Unless you have something to say on the above conversation over, until I get the  expected "no can do" from TfL.

 

 

[first mate]

8 hours ago, malumbu said:

If you haven't got anything to contribute then please clear off. 

Rude!

I reckon most of us that actually live in the area are heartily tired of the endless roadworks and reconfigurations. The best things would be to give it a rest. 

 

Edited March 25, 2025 by first mate