Up the reform

[malumbu]

@Cancerian what are your views on climate change and on Reform's position.  As a former Tory you will get well aware that Cameron, May and Johnson supported net zero and environmental measures.

[Cancerian]

I’m sorry malumbu but I won’t be answering your question on climate change etc! I would love to answer it but there are certain people on this forum and who have gone before you that love to shut people down on their views and turn the conversation around. 

I’m in the process of finding out who is the current Reform Party candidate in my area and will be giving them my support asap!

Edited May 9 by Cancerian
Personal

[Sephiroth]

4 hours ago, Cancerian said:

I’m sorry malumbu but I won’t be answering your question on climate change etc! I would love to answer it but there are certain people on this forum and who have gone before you that love to shut people down on their views and turn the conversation around. 

I’m in the process of finding out who is the current Reform Party candidate in my area (Dulwich Village Ward)  and will be giving them my support asap!

Yep.  “Shutting down” fascists is something this country used to be good at

these days, people like to pretend fascism doesn’t exist 

 

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

The idea that Reform are appealing primarily to working class voters in the north, is not born out in research undertaken by Legatum. It suggests that their voters are overwhelmingly older, more affluent (AB, C1/2), ex Conservative voters, from 'non-London South'. Primary concerns are immigration followed by opposition to green policies and social progress. They mainly seem to made up of the same angry old home county types who have ensured a rarely interrupted string of Tory governments for many decades. Don't know whether that research is to be believed or not, but interesting if true and very at odds with the narrative Reform are spinning. 

Edited May 9 by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

Hmmm.

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

Can anyone hear buzzing?

[Bob Buzzard]

I normally vote Lib Dem so I don’t want to vote Reform. I’m a liberal European internationalist (mostly) vegetarian inclusive ethical person. 

[Spartacus]

Should this thread have the words "Carry on" added to it ?

That of course would lead to questions on who plays whom 

Sid James as Farage or is Kenneth Williams more appropriate 🤔 

We could have a whole separate thread on this alone.

 

[diable rouge]

3 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

It suggests that their voters are overwhelmingly older, more affluent (AB, C1/2), ex Conservative voters, from 'non-London South'. 

Doesn't surprise me, the same demographic voted heavily for Brexit while the media would have you believe it was solely the Red Wall that did for Remain.

Of course, Farage & Tice are classic examples of that demographic.

I read somewhere that a lot of it is driven by boredom and mischief, the thrill of being a disruptor. Let's hope that by the time they start soiling their beds, there's some poor souls still left in the NHS/Care System to wipe their bony backsides.

On that subject, at the last GE a Reform voter was asked how would they personally pay for health care if Reform privatised the NHS as Farage has proposed.

''Oh, I'm sure they will look after us somehow''.

And we're not supposed to call Reform voters thick?...

[malumbu]

17 hours ago, Cancerian said:

I’m sorry malumbu but I won’t be answering your question on climate change etc! I would love to answer it but there are certain people on this forum and who have gone before you that love to shut people down on their views and turn the conversation around. 

I’m in the process of finding out who is the current Reform Party candidate in my area (Dulwich Village Ward)  and will be giving them my support asap!

Why not?

Opposing climate change is one of Reform's main policies.  You don't need to agree with all their policies of course but you should have a view either way.

[Cancerian]

And I’m sure the posters on here will have a go at whatever my view is so I’ll pass on that. Being called a fascist and thick is quite enough for me today. 

[malumbu]

I haven't called you this.  I'm just interested in what a Reform voter may think.  

[Sephiroth]

He’s talking about me mal

 

but me being me, if I had views that were thick or racist I wouldnt post them either - because yknow   Embaaaaarasing

but if I had views that weren’t thick or racist I would post them - because yknow, what would be the problem ?

so, QED..:

Because if I was JUST calling people thick or racist when they weren’t, then other people would call me out.  Right? Because that’s how it works 

but the only people so far who are getting all precious…

 

[Sephiroth]

say it ain’t so

“ 12 winning councillors under scrutiny with three accused of retweeting Britain First comments”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/10/reform-uk-councillors-face-allegations-sharing-far-right-islamophobic-content?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[diable rouge]

As with Brexit, everyone who votes for Reform isn't a racist, but I'm confident in saying that the vast majority of racists will vote for Reform, like they did with Brexit.

So, anyone who considers themselves as non-racist but is considering or will vote for Reform, needs to ask themselves why is that the case?

Why do you never hear Reform promoting equality/anti-racism? Instead, Farage is now copying Trump with anti-DEI (Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion) rhetoric. It can't be any clearer where Reform stands when it comes to such issues...  

 

 

 

[Sephiroth]

Precisely DR

it’s entirely understandable to conclude one is so disillusioned by Labour for Tories, it must be time for someone else 

That  is an entirely reasonable position

But if the next step is to then transfer your vote to a party full of charlatans, snake oil salespeople and racists?

Then  you stop being reasonable and start being thick and/or racist

i understood why Tories took power in 2010. I feared it was an error but I wasn’t castigating people who voted for them

tories (then, not now) and Labour are hamstrung not by civil service or EU but by a weird media and a weird voting system in an age of social media.  The answers don’t seem to be coming from them yet but voting reform will only damage the country internationally and internally 

the Tories may yet regain power but are currently led by a madwoman, with a madman positioning himself to take over. Will take years for them to sort themselves out

labour are making errors all over the shop but are at least in the ballpark of sane governanc.  In no way should this give them a free pass but in 2025 there genuinely isn’t anyone better 

(and current polling for reform is meaningless - in any general election be it 4 years or 4 months their lack of accountability and standards will become all too clear)

[ianr]

2 hours ago, diable rouge said:

I'm confident in saying that the vast majority of racists will vote for Reform, like they did with Brexit.

How many are there in your racist category?

Edited May 10 by ianr

[malumbu]

"Levels of racist attitudes have declined in recent decades, although structural disadvantages persist and hate incidents continue. Studies published in 2014 and 2015 suggested racist attitudes were on the rise in the UK, with more than one third of those polled perceiving they were racially prejudiced." This no doubt doesn't mean that all are racist, but it is still a sizeable number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Edited May 10 by malumbu

[JohnL]

On 05/05/2025 at 09:35, malumbu said:

The decision to leave the EU was a poor one, but I'd avoid the term stupid when applied to the masses (the decision was of course stupid) and blame those who willingly misled.  A certain N Farage (pronounced with a hard G rather than the soft G he affected, rather continental eh?) being one of the main culprits.

He blames the Tories for not delivering Brexit, and not really clear how Labour are playing this.  But ultimately what sort of Brexit were people voting for?  And ditto what future were people voting for last Thursday?

I have heard a few times that Cameron thought there was going to be another coalition government and he needed some policies that he could easily throw away in bargaining with the Liberal Democrats.

So he proposed the referendum planning to bargain it away after the election.

Then he won and was stuck with it.

Maybe that was stupid 🙂

 

Edited Wednesday at 17:56 by JohnL

[malumbu]

Absolutely, another coalition was nailed on with the bookies, three big factors, Tories playing it very cute with constituents in marginal seats, LDs being punished for tuition fees and not pushing Tories harder, and Milliband's public persona in particular the right wing media.  irrespective of unnecessary austerity the country would have been in a better place if there had been another coalition.

 

[Sue]

On 10/05/2025 at 17:29, malumbu said:

"Levels of racist attitudes have declined in recent decades, although structural disadvantages persist and hate incidents continue. Studies published in 2014 and 2015 suggested racist attitudes were on the rise in the UK, with more than one third of those polled perceiving they were racially prejudiced." This no doubt doesn't mean that all are racist, but it is still a sizeable number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Those studies are ten years old.

I wonder if there is anything more recent.

Also, I haven't looked at them, but from what you say,  the studies apparently asked people if THEY thought they were "racially prejudiced".

For several  reasons, on the face of it that isn't likely to produce an accurate indication of the level of actual racial prejudice in that sample.

Also, how was "racial prejudice" defined? And "racist attitudes"?

[malumbu]

General comment in response to the title - "Up your Arsenal"

Sue I expect things have worsened since 2015, Labour veering to the right was not on the cards then.

[jazzer]

2 hours ago, malumbu said:

General comment in response to the title - "Up your Arsenal"

Sue I expect things have worsened since 2015, Labour veering to the right was not on the cards then.

Veering to the right, seriously???? Try Left