Indoor market in East Dulwich - Would you be interested?

[radnrach]

Hello,

I was just wanting to get a general idea of how people in the area felt about the idea of a small indoor market opening locally. Is it something people would be interested in?

My husband and I have lived in ED for almost 20 years and have a local business, and just thinking into the future.. I thought East Dulwich Forum would be a great place to start some market research.

The space would have 8-14 small market stalls for local businesses, along with a cafe and a couple of permanent fixtures as well. 

Please do let me know your thoughts!

[wilson]

I’d be interested in having a chat 

I run curated street makers markets

Lee

07870362276

[Earl Aelfheah]

There used to be one where Gails is. I think a new indoor market would be great personally!

[Sephiroth]

if you've lived in the area for 20 years you might remember the indoor market on Zenoria st - where Gail's is now?

Different times and different demographics since then but I always got the impression that struggled at the time

 

But as I say, it was 20 years ago so there might be an appetite now - best of luck

 

 

[radnrach]

3 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

if you've lived in the area for 20 years you might remember the indoor market on Zenoria st - where Gail's is now?

Different times and different demographics since then but I always got the impression that struggled at the time

 

But as I say, it was 20 years ago so there might be an appetite now - best of luck

 

 

I do remember - and we loved it when it was open and I wonder if things have changed enough since then to make one work now.

[Sephiroth]

1 minute ago, radnrach said:

I do remember - and we loved it when it was open and I wonder if things have changed enough since then to make one work now.

there are items of furniture I bought in there that I still use now after 2 moves

[alice]

It was never busy I think the footfall promise failed,  I do remember a cheese street market business moved there but then moved back to the street markets. The overhead was higher and the profit was lower.

Edited Monday at 09:28 by alice
Sense

[Penguin68]

If you are to consider offering a new indoor Market (and I also enjoyed and on occasion used the Zenoria Market) then I would recommend researching why it eventually failed. It had several stalls (including an oyster bar, if memory serves) that I was happy to use, and a number I walked swiftly past as of no interest. What was the demographic then, and now? What needs must it meet now? 'Build a field and they will come' wasn't  true then, and isn't now. It has to be the right field. And if it is  'fashionable' then remember fashions change quicker than anything.

Edited Monday at 10:02 by Penguin68

[Sephiroth]

one of my main worries if I was looking into this would be the bottom line rent and rates - they must be magnitudes higher than back then 

[malumbu]

Looking at the Street Markets that I frequented in the past, and what happened to Borough Market and some new covered places close to the river, most now focus on quite up market (ie expensive) street food and artisan food.  Northcross has gone similar in the last decade too.  Makes a mockery of the cost of living crisis!  Bermondsey, near the beer mile gone this way too.  Not old school Bermondsey....

More downmarket I liked the grotty indoor market at the Elephant and will similarly some of the arcades in Peckham.

As others have said its about the demographic and whether there is further demand, or is the market place is saturated? Do you have an anticipated USP?

 

[Angelina]

why not expand the NC Rd market? I can't imagine a small indoor market attracting footfall 

 

[Happyme5]

It could be a brilliant idea.  For local traders.  

[Sue]

22 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

if you've lived in the area for 20 years you might remember the indoor market on Zenoria st - where Gail's is now?

Different times and different demographics since then but I always got the impression that struggled at the time

 

But as I say, it was 20 years ago so there might be an appetite now - best of luck

It was a weird place, and there never seemed to be many people in it.

Stalls/selling areas (they  weren't really stalls as such) came and went. For a while there was an area upstairs as well.

Around the beginning of ED  gentrification,  someone opened a champagne bar near the entrance. I think it also sold oysters, though there was another oyster place in the market, possibly not at the same time.

Whether it did or not, unsurprisingly it didn't last long. I can't imagine they had done any market research, or even wondered why anybody would want to drink champagne in that kind of environment.

I'm not sure an indoor market would work now, but what do I know. It would depend on what it sold and whether people wanted what it sold, I suppose.

It wouldn't get much passing trade in somewhere like  Zenoria Street, so it would have to be very well advertised.

Edited Tuesday at 07:21 by Sue

[BeatrixPaddler]

I would love something like this if you could get it to work financially. I still miss the market on Zenoria. I bought all sorts there; furniture, clothes, pictures…

No oysters though. 

[tomskip]

I don't think so, sadly. The Zenoria Street indoor market failed to take off and generally speaking traders at Christmas Fairs and Farmers Markets are reporting that it isn't worth their while now. If you go to North Cross Road, the vast majority of visitors are only buying the street food! It was the same when I went to the Horniman Sunday market and second hand market yesterday. With the lack of footfall I couldn't understand how any of the traders could be making any money. 

[NewWave]

I would love something like this..I remember the one where Gails is now..It had some bric a brac furniture and 2nd hand clothes, I don't remeber the Oyster bar.

The issue with the one on Zenoria St-And I speak as a long time habitué of Portobello, Kensington Market, Alfies,Spitalfields,Covent Garden (back when it had a decent vintage market on Mondays in the 80's and Early 90's) ..Was that a lot of the stuff they sold looked a bit meh..like a bad car boot fair.

I also remember when we first moved here a small indoor market on the corner of North X road and Felbrigg rd that had bric a brac and bits of furniture..That one had some good stuff.

I think the secret is in having a good mix of stalls selling well curated pieces at decent prices...It would also be good to have a few tables and rails available to rent for one-off sellers (car boot style) by application.

When I lived in Notting Hill I used to do Portobello under the flyover a couple of times a year and made really decent money because people tended to go there on sundays for the Casual stallholders rather the same dealers selling the same stuff.

[kford]

"I also remember when we first moved here a small indoor market on the corner of North X road and Felbrigg rd that had bric a brac and bits of furniture..That one had some good stuff."

 

I remember that little bric-a-brac, at the back of the solicitors' place. Still got a block type panel from there. The old solicitors on the corner would could be a good venue for a few indoor stalls

[Sue]

46 minutes ago, kford said:

"I also remember when we first moved here a small indoor market on the corner of North X road and Felbrigg rd that had bric a brac and bits of furniture..That one had some good stuff."

 

I remember that little bric-a-brac, at the back of the solicitors' place. Still got a block type panel from there. The old solicitors on the corner would could be a good venue for a few indoor stalls

I'd forgotten about that place. 

It wasn't a market as such, it was just run by one  couple. They did have some quite interesting things.

I still have a mirror I got from there, which had been  put inside an old painted  shuttered window frame from somewhere in India. Mumbai I think.

There also used to be occasional indoor  markets in the church hall where the cinema now is, next to where the Irish shop used to be.

But if memory serves they were usually either jumble sales (do they still exist?) or craft sales before Christmas.

There have also been occasional indoor markets at the church hall in Dulwich Village and the church hall at the church in Barry Road up by the Plough. There never seemed to be many people buying things at them.

But it does all depend on what is being sold, whether it appeals to the local demographic,  where the market is located and how it is publicised.

And, obviously,  whether it is profitable for the traders.

Edited Tuesday at 07:30 by Sue

[Penguin68]

The most successful (in the sense of being long-lived) indoor markets often wholly or mainly offer 'antiques' - as these stalls can be covered by others when the owners are absent - as they often can be, if dealers and attending auctions etc. Whoever acts as a support can offer a fixed discount or contact the owners for negotiation. Remember than most indoor markets survive by being open 7 days a week, if allowed - but the individual stalls are often one person bands who can't provide that level of cover, so will individually be closed for one or two days in the week. Too many closed (unless, as above, they are still at least virtually 'open for business') and the market will lose its attraction. One problem is that individuals may use the market to try out a business idea - the problem being that if successful they may then look for a 'proper' shop and leave the market. So the good outlets always move on. And the market holder then has to look for a new tenant.

[Pugwash]

The market held annually at Christ Church Barry Road, was not held last year. Traders had stated that footfall ha fallen considerably, and was not profitable. Whilst a couple of stalls had goods at a reasonable price (socks) the others were very expensive. Not many people were willing to pay £25-£30 for a mug. If my memory serves me correctly - the craft market initially started off in the Village, but did not attract enough footfall and was not on a public transport route - hence the move to Christ Church.

I used to go regularly to NXR market but the prices got so ridiculous on the majority of stalls ( a filled baguette which originally cost  around £4 - went up to £9). having grown up in ED - I remember the original NXR market - with fruit and veg stalls, haberdashery, etc which were there 2/3 times a week.

My idea of an indoor market is those seen in provincial towns - Preston, Derby, Chichester (which also has street market)

[ArchieCarlos]

Please bring this to Dulwich Village - we only have cafés and chain stores and could really do with some retail dynamism ! There's so much disposable income in the area, but so few good options to spend it.