Interesting stats on cycle red light jumpers

[first mate]

I am seeing many more cyclists jumping red lights; it seemed to reduce for a while. Yes, a lot are e-bike users but these are classified as cyclists.

Also seeing more of the same cycling on pavements that are not shared use. E-bike riders on pavements is a new thing. Until recently, we could feel reasonably confident that pavements were a safe, traffic free environment with the expectation that powered vehicles were confined to the roads. This distinction is now becoming blurred.

[malumbu]

Illegal e bikes are not bicycles.  They essentially are motor bikes. The GLA report I attached had recommendations for addressing this increasing hazard too.

[Rockets]

Ha ha @malumbu they are bikes...they are called e-bikes for a reason. I love how some of you try to blame the problem as e-bikes and then try to claim e-bikes are actually motorbikes.

Is a Lime bike a motorbike then?

[first mate]

Exactly, and in my experience Lime bike riders are one of the biggest offenders in terms of anti-social non-shared pavement cycling. I have also seen a number of parents on powered bikes ( not sure which category) with little ones in a trailer, behind. I have a certain sympathy with this but if many more start using pavements in this way it could become a problem- also said parents were not going slowly when on the pavement.

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

There are some obvious differences between traditional bicycles, pedal assist e-bikes, and illegal electric motor powered bikes that are throttle operated. 

[first mate]

I think we can all agree, Lime bikes and other brands of hire e-bike are incredibly easy to identify. Food delivery drivers are more likely to use illegal e-bikes but are big for cycling on pavements. Parents cycling with children towed in a trailer may use a range of bicycles but should try to cycle very slowly on non shared use pavements. If more and more people start to cycle with trailers then I think non- shared pavement use will have to stop.

[exdulwicher]

35 minutes ago, first mate said:

If more and more people start to cycle with trailers then I think non- shared pavement use will have to stop.

Agreed - it's already noted in the LTN 1/20 guidance (LTN in this case means Local Transport Note, not Low Traffic Neighbourhood!). Basically it's the guidance setting out how infrastructure for walking, wheeling and cycling should be designed and built, and it covers shared space and segregated space but it notes that the old days where a council could paint a line down the middle of a pavement for a bit then put a blue "Cyclists Dismount" sign at the end of it is nowhere close to acceptable any more. 

This obviously applies double for any form of adapted bike, trike, cargo bike etc which are far bigger and far less manoeuvrable than "traditional" bikes which is largely what has been accommodated so far. Thankfully there are an increasing number of parking bays, cycle hangers etc designed for e-bikes, cargo bikes, adapted bikes etc now.

2 hours ago, Rockets said:

Ha ha @malumbu they are bikes...they are called e-bikes for a reason. I love how some of you try to blame the problem as e-bikes and then try to claim e-bikes are actually motorbikes.

Give over Rockets. Funny how pedantry is really your strong point when it suits you but now you're just going "they're all e-bikes!"

They're not, at all. Even the law says they're not so your statement is simply wrong. "e-bike" (in the colloquial term) refers to EAPC - Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle. These are the legal bikes sold by reputable manufacturers and it also includes Lime, Dott etc. No throttle, the motor can only assist when pedalling, the motor cuts out at 25kph blah blah. It's all enshrined in law. You can even read about it here cos I know how much you'll want references and data points and "where did you get this info from?"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs-in-great-britain-information-sheet

However "e-bike" is also used colloquially (and incorrectly) to refer to any sort of electrically-powered 2-wheel bike-shaped thing, usually by people who don't know or care about the differences and sometimes by media seeking some clickbait. If it has a throttle, it's regarded in law as a moped or motorbike. That can actually be legal if it's registered, insured, taxed, has a number plate and so on. But you can buy them from any number of websites including Amazon, sold under the guise of "they're legal if they're only used on private land" disclaimer which as we all know is a total get-out clause.

Whatever "crackdown" has to happen needs to be from a mix of angles. Confiscate the illegal bikes, absolutely. But then the Uber Eat / Deliveroo lot simply beg, borrow, buy or steal another one and they're back on the road in 24hrs - mostly because the whole system of gig economy basically demands that they use the cheapest fastest mode of transport possible. You also need to go after the online sellers saturating the market with illegal bikes, the back-street "workshops" that work on them or modify them (most reputable bike shops won't touch them) and the people selling crap quality batteries. All those battery fires are from illegally modified bikes, often being used with aftermarket batteries and incompatible chargers. Actual EAPCs from reputable manufacturers aren't a problem. And in law, EAPC is regarded as "a bike". Same as any other normal road-legal bike. Allowed to use the same trails, paths, infrastructure as any other normal road-legal bike.

Edited 12 hours ago by exdulwicher

[malumbu]

4 hours ago, Rockets said:

Ha ha @malumbu they are bikes...they are called e-bikes for a reason. I love how some of you try to blame the problem as e-bikes and then try to claim e-bikes are actually motorbikes.

Is a Lime bike a motorbike then?

Do you not take on board what others post just because they don't agree with you?  Illegal 'e bikes' have been discussed numerous times on this forum.  Here is the definition again:

"in the UK, an electric bike (e-bike) that doesn't meet the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle (EAPC) regulations is legally classified as a moped or motorcycle. This occurs if the e-bike's motor provides assistance above 15.5 mph (25 km/h), has a maximum power output over 250 watts, or has a throttle that can be used without pedaling. "

A Lime bike is a bike or an electrically assisted pedal bike.

Pretty clear.

[first mate]

Thanks Mal, yes, we can easily identify Lime bikes and e-bikes, a bit harder to know which are souped up. But this thread is not about 'bike spotting' it is about noticing a rise in the number of cyclists running red lights (and I added the issue about pavement use). Do feel free to start a bike-spotter thread though, or it might sit nicely in your 'joys of cycling' thread 🙂

[malumbu]

You raised e bikes not me.  Beyond some discussion about changing the regs for cyclists I don't find this thread of any interest.  

[Spartacus]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

You raised e bikes not me.  Beyond some discussion about changing the regs for cyclists I don't find this thread of any interest.  

In that case, why do you keep on  posting on it ? 

[Rockets]

@malumbu all this "it's the e-bikes that are the problem" is nothing more than a distraction attempt. Yes there are problems with souped up illegal e-bikes but the vast majority of problems are being caused by what everyone categorises as a bike - pedal bikes, Lime bikes, pedal assist legal bikes.

What is in play here is a weak attempt by the cycle lobby to point the finger of blame at a group to try and absolve itself of responsibility for addressing the challenge - it's another "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS".

Trust me, TFL is not embarking on a cyclist education poster campaign because of illegal e-bikes!