Melbourne Grove Closure

[maddison]

Hi all,

I might be a little late to the party but does anyone know why the end of Melbourne Grove was closed off? I get it to an extent why the other roads were closed off since they were residential, but surely Melbourne Grove should not of been closed off because of the shops and the school. Wouldn't that also affect the businesses as well?

[first mate]

Have a look at the Melbourne Grove South CPZ. Southwark decided to make MG North a CPZ and then an LTN. Now they are also making the rest of MG, and few other streets a CPZ this coming October, despite a majority against in the last consultation.

The details on process are a bit unclear. Wording in a document on the matter I viewed online in June stated the new reduced CPZ would be subject to statutory consultation. So far there has been no further consultation but Cllt Charlie Smith recently announced it had all been agreed. If anyone can explain, I'd be grateful.

Anyway, reasons for blocking the road are all part of this grand scheme.

[Cancerian]

Yes, used to love visiting Melbourne Grove residents and the local shops but that’s all in the past now due to road closures etc! Labour run councils do not listen to local people. Just look at what has happened during the past 4/5 years in Dulwich Village. Like a ghost town now!

[malumbu]

You are still able to walk to both.  Or cycle.  Or if you really have to drive, you can park near by.

[maddison]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

You are still able to walk to both.  Or cycle.  Or if you really have to drive, you can park near by.

like where? I need different permits for different streets and with the road closure, I can't park anywhere on melbourne grove since there is no space

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

You are still able to walk to both.  Or cycle.  Or if you really have to drive, you can park near by.

like where? I need different permits for different streets and with the road closure, I can't park anywhere on melbourne grove since there is no space.

Not to mention the traffic too. When I go home I have to go the whole way around for a reason that is still unknown to this day! I want to meet the one person who wanted an LTN

[malumbu]

Enough to make you want to leave the car at home.  Is there nowhere within walking distance with paid or free parking?  If you have to take your car to Dulwich village there is plenty of free parking, including on Court Lane

[Spartacus]

49 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Enough to make you want to leave the car at home.  Is there nowhere within walking distance with paid or free parking?  If you have to take your car to Dulwich village there is plenty of free parking, including on Court Lane

Enough to make you want to drive to a more car friendly environment when you want to buy more than a croissant (other small purchase objects could be substituted here) 

[Earl Aelfheah]

16 hours ago, maddison said:

like where? I need different permits for different streets and with the road closure, I can't park anywhere on melbourne grove since there is no space

If you have mobility issues, then there is disabled parking. If not, you can get the bus, walk, cycle, or if coming from further afield, get the train to ED station. If you really need to drive, then parking can be (as it's always been), difficult. You are right that there is not enough space for everyone to park wherever they want.

24 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Enough to make you want to drive to a more car friendly environment when you want to buy more than a croissant

If you're picking up a large item there are plenty of loading bays.

If you want to live in an area where you can drive short local journeys and park easily, then truth is you probably do need to move out of zone 2 London.

22 hours ago, maddison said:

surely Melbourne Grove should not of been closed off because of the shops and the school

You think people should be driving to a school with the catchment of Charter? 

17 hours ago, Cancerian said:

Yes, used to love visiting Melbourne Grove residents

If you're visiting a resident, then they can give you a visitors permit I believe. 

Edited August 12 by Earl Aelfheah

[Spartacus]

37 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

If you want to live in an area where you can drive short local journeys and park easily, then truth is you probably do need to move out of zone 2 London.

Amazing, you are telling people where to live now because they drive a car. That just sums you up. 

[Insuflo]

22 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Amazing, you are telling people where to live now because they drive a car. That just sums you up. 

What’s really amazing is those who expect society and the built environment to be organised solely for their convenience because they choose to drive a car. A lifestyle choice (for so it is for most drivers) that impacts negatively on us all.

[malumbu]

But it does surprise me that a dozen or so of those who post complain so much about living around here, that they don't move to a more 'car friendly' borough.  Obviously the benefits far outweigh the inconveniences of restrictions on motorists.

[Earl Aelfheah]

41 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Amazing, you are telling people where to live now because they drive a car. That just sums you up. 

I’m not telling people where to live. I’m pointing out tagt you can’t live in zone 2 London and expect to be able to drive shirt journeys and park easily. You think this is realistic?

[Spartacus]

6 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

I’m not telling people where to live. I’m pointing out tagt you can’t live in zone 2 London and expect to be able to drive shirt journeys and park easily. You think this is realistic?

Whats a shirt journey ? 

 

Yes its realistic to want to drive in zone 2, but if you are in the mood for giving advice, you could always move to the countryside where cycling is easier. Maybe you don't want to move because you,like those that drive, actually enjoy being here ? 

Don't give advice you aren't personally willing to take yourself. 

We have roads, which were primarily put in place primarily for vehicle movement but your attitude and others sums up the sense of self privilege that people dislike about those that bang their gongs for active travel. 

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

24 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Whats a shirt journey ?

Oh that’s brilliant. 👏 

24 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Yes its realistic to want to drive in zone 2

That wasn’t the question.

24 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

your attitude and others sums up the sense of self privilege

I’m not the one suggesting it should be possible to make short journeys in a two ton air conditioned princess carriage and park it with ease anywhere I like in zone 2 London. Maybe you just have to accept that the world doesn’t revolve around you and that we all have to share the space available. 

Edited August 12 by Earl Aelfheah

[Spartacus]

43 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

you can’t live in zone 2 London and expect to be able to drive shirt journeys and park easily. You think this is realistic?

 

7 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

 

That wasn’t the question.

Oh but it was , you can't even remember what you just posted 

17 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

I’m not the one suggesting it should be possible to make short journeys in a two ton air conditioned princess carriage and park it with ease anywhere I like in zone 2 London.

Interesting use of "size" there as it seems to imply that everyone drives a SUV, has kids and does short journeys. Very generalistic of you.  Shows your distain for those that don't follow your active travel religion. 

[Rockets]

49 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Interesting use of "size" there as it seems to imply that everyone drives a SUV, has kids and does short journeys. Very generalistic of you.  Shows your distain for those that don't follow your active travel religion.

Active travel lobbyists always default to the two-tonne SUV narrative.....they think it adds weight to their argument but all it does is make them look a bit obsessive and out of touch with the reality of car ownership - remember the whole argument on here about how some lobbyists were classifying some small cars as SUVs to create the impression there was a massive problem with huge tank-like vehicles on our roads. Speaking of which whatever did happen to RaptorTruckMan - did the person behind that account get bored of their double-posting life!!! 😉 

[Spartacus]

I like your use of 2 ton SUVs and adding weight.... 

I think RTM was a paradoy and bored themselves let alone everyone else

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

Ok, a 1.7 ton princess carriage (weight of an average car). The weight wasn’t actually the point but it’s hilarious that’s the bit you’ve taken issue with. 🤷‍♂️ 

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

you can't even remember what you just posted 

I can and you seem to forget that anyone can look back and read it. There is a difference between saying you want be able to drive a car in zone 2 and saying that you should be able to “drive short journeys and park easily” in zone 2 London. You deliberately avoided the question because presumably you know it’s not realistic to think everyone can drive short journeys and park where they like, without difficulty.

Edited August 12 by Earl Aelfheah

[Spartacus]

Interesting Earl, you just made a generalistic assumption on what I think, yes everyone can read back and see your weasel wording and how you try and manipulate peoples responses to suit your agenda. Poor form. 

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

I am not the one using weasel words. I pointed out that you can’t live in zone 2 London and expect to be able to drive short journeys and park easily. I asked if you think this is realistic?

You responded by mocking an obvious typo and to answer that:

2 hours ago, Spartacus said:

Yes its realistic to want to drive in zone 2

That’s pretty slippery. How about answering the question asked instead of a different one?

I didn’t ask whether it was realistic to want to drive in zone 2 London. I assume you do see the difference?

50 minutes ago, Rockets said:

Active travel lobbyists…

🥱 

Haven’t you embarrassed yourself enough today Rocks

Just because someone has an opinion you don’t agree with, doesn’t mean they’re a ‘lobbyist’. It’s really about time you looked the word up.

Edited August 12 by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

Does anyone know when the statutory consultation to which the revised MGS CPZ proposal is subject will be taking place?

In terms of process, is it okay for a Cllr to announce the revised CPZ has "been agreed" if the statutory consultation has not yet taken place?

Edited August 12 by first mate

[Spartacus]

Okay Earl, my answer is yes it is still relevant to drive in zone 2, short journeys or otherwise because unlike you (with your view that everyone seems to drive SUVs ) it really is not a black and white issue, individual circumstances or reasons may require driving, even for short distances.  But your view seems to be that its unreasonable without analysing why or circumstances behind driving. 

Not everyone wants to join the active travel "cult"* but you try and demonise them at every opportunity.

Maybe if you weren't so aggressive in your approach, didn't spin others words and dogmaticcily try to force your views down others throats, you might be able to have a decent discussion. 

* used tounge in cheek 

PS do you have a size inferiority complex as you seem to always mention vehicle sizes. 

Edited August 12 by Spartacus

[mitchiner]

17 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

If you have mobility issues, then there is disabled parking. If not, you can get the bus, walk, cycle, or if coming from further afield, get the train to ED station. If you really need to drive, then parking can be (as it's always been), difficult. You are right that there is not enough space for everyone to park wherever they want.

If you're picking up a large item there are plenty of loading bays.

If you want to live in an area where you can drive short local journeys and park easily, then truth is you probably do need to move out of zone 2 London.

You think people should be driving to a school with the catchment of Charter? 

If you're visiting a resident, then they can give you a visitors permit I believe. 

This wasn’t a problem a couple years back. Southwark deliberately created this problem to drive up permit prices

[mitchiner]

14 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

I am not the one using weasel words. I pointed out that you can’t live in zone 2 London and expect to be able to drive short journeys and park easily. I asked if you think this is realistic?

You responded by mocking an obvious typo and to answer that:

That’s pretty slippery. How about answering the question asked instead of a different one?

I didn’t ask whether it was realistic to want to drive in zone 2 London. I assume you do see the difference?

🥱

Haven’t you embarrassed yourself enough today Rocks

Just because someone has an opinion you don’t agree with, doesn’t mean they’re a ‘lobbyist’. It’s really about time you looked the word up.

It was a couple of years back. Why do you assume that just because we are in zone 2 we have to ride a bike. Obviously we can but we choose not to for different reasons. Parking spaces will help out everyone and removing them just to add another bench does absolutely nothing but rile up the residents

[mitchiner]

14 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

Ok, a 1.7 ton princess carriage (weight of an average car). The weight wasn’t actually the point but it’s hilarious that’s the bit you’ve taken issue with. 🤷‍♂️ 

I can and you seem to forget that anyone can look back and read it. There is a difference between saying you want be able to drive a car in zone 2 and saying that you should be able to “drive short journeys and park easily” in zone 2 London. You deliberately avoided the question because presumably you know it’s not realistic to think everyone can drive short journeys and park where they like, without difficulty.

What do you mean exactly by princess carriage?