Southwark to repay 10,000 bus lane fines

[Rockets]

BBC News - Motorists to get refunds on 10,000 bus lane fines

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjdy9z0pxnmo

[malumbu]

That's a shame, drivers should not go into bus lanes when they are in operation and deserve to be fined.  I assume that you are not against the principle of bus lane restrictions and enforcement of these.  Not really an article decent people should be celebrating.

[Moovart]

While it is the case that if the rules are broken one pays a fine.  I have no issue with that.

Unfortunately Southwark (via cameras or poorly trained traffic wardens) has incorrectly fined people in a number of different situations.  Southwark then has to pay a number of staff to do a significant amount of unnecessary paperwork in responding to appeals, refunding fines, correcting signage etc and this is wasted money.  It is right that Southwark staff and councillors should be held to account for wasting our money which is why it is worthy of BBC news.  They could just get it right the first time. 

[malumbu]

It's not great that motorists that do wrong get away with it due to a technical loop hole, irrespective of the mistake in terms of the notice.  If I strayed into a bus lane when I drive, pretty unlikely I know as (a) I rarely drive as there are better ways of getting across the metropolis (b) I am one of the few excellent drivers who is very aware of signage and the rules, I (as I did in the past when I didn't have such high standards) would take it on the chin and be more aware in future.

[Moovart]

And if it's not a technical loophole ie it's just wrong, do you still feel so happy giving your money away?

 

[Rockets]

4 hours ago, malumbu said:

Not really an article decent people should be celebrating.

Errr, are you accusing me of celebrating it.....I posted it.....does that qualify me of not being a decent person...be careful @malumbu you're sailing very close to breaking forum rules that that one?

[maddison]

it's a rigged system. the appeals process is genuinely horrid and they take forever to reply too so you end up paying the full fine and not the half if you pay within 14 days

[ianr]

When Southwark send you a letter turning down your initial written representations, what does it actually say then about the penalty payable, and any time limit?

[Dulwichway]

On 19/08/2025 at 15:28, malumbu said:

" Not really an article decent people should be celebrating".

Are you serious? it's the decent people that have been ripped off by Southwark Council, and they are now paying back after being found out!

[malumbu]

How on earth can you condone driving down a bus lane when it is operation? Are you for real?

[Dulwichway]

20 minutes ago, malumbu said:

How on earth can you condone driving down a bus lane when it is operation? Are you for real?

How on earth can you condone Southwark Council robbing motorists?  they made a serious error and corrected it! are you for real?

[Rockets]

There are some people who really don't like it when the council has to face the consequences of, and are held accountable for, their actions. Maybe they should spend less time defending the council and ponder how things like this can happen time and time again. Good news, of course, is that the council has £500,000 less to waste on vanity projects like Dulwich Square now!

[march46]

The article says the refunds will be reimbursed by contractor. 

"We are also strengthening our checks with contractors to make sure this does not happen again. The council will recover the full cost of the refunds from the contractors."

 

[SE22_2020er]

What actually happened please? The BBC article seems to indicate that people did drive in bus lanes but the penalty notices were coded wrongly when they were issued?

[Rockets]

It seems to suggest the notices made reference to the wrong legislation. 

 

It says:

The council issued 10,422 penalty charge notices to people caught on CCTV driving in bus lanes, but the the wrong legislation appeared on the notices.

Earlier this year the AA said thousands of drivers across London have been paying invalid penalty charge notices (PCNs) due to enforcement and restriction cameras that relied upon expired Traffic Management Orders or lacked updated certification.

And then goes on to say:

Earlier this year the AA said thousands of drivers across London have been paying invalid penalty charge notices (PCNs) due to enforcement and restriction cameras that relied upon expired Traffic Management Orders or lacked updated certification.

[Penguin68]

1 hour ago, march46 said:

The article says the refunds will be reimbursed by contractor. 

No, it clearly says that Southwark will attempt to recover the costs from the contractor, but it is Southwark which will initially repay those people it has wrongly fined. I suspect there will be more lawyers and costs before that is all resolved. 

[march46]

No it doesn’t, re-read the quote above.

[malumbu]

1 hour ago, Penguin68 said:

No, it clearly says that Southwark will attempt to recover the costs from the contractor, but it is Southwark which will initially repay those people it has wrongly fined. I suspect there will be more lawyers and costs before that is all resolved. 

They were rightly fined for driving in bus lanes.  The wrong process was followed.  This comes across as being in favour if drivers flouting the rules.

[Rockets]

@march46 I think you need to re-read it. McAsh's quote does seem to suggest that the council will repay the fine this month and will recover the costs of those refunds from the contractors (I doubt that part will be done within a month) - interesting use of plural there in his quote - is there more than one contractor involved? I do suspect it may not be clear cut that the council gets the full cost of refunds there could be a fight ahead because McAsh's quote does also say they are strengthening checks with the contractors - which suggests they may not have been strong enough in the first place, especially as the fines are issued in the name of Southwark Council - so was anyone from the council checking/signing this stuff off?

 

Councillor James McAsh, Southwark's cabinet member for clean air, streets and waste, said: "We have reviewed all other notices and found no further issues.

"We are also strengthening our checks with contractors to make sure this does not happen again. The council will recover the full cost of the refunds from the contractors."

The council issued 10,422 penalty charge notices to people caught on CCTV driving in bus lanes, but the the wrong legislation appeared on the notices.

It said: "We will reimburse all motorists and refunds will automatically be applied to the accounts of those affected within the next month."

[march46]

55 minutes ago, Rockets said:

The council will recover the full cost of the refunds from the contractors

It’s pretty clear 

[Rockets]

...after they, the council, have paid the refunds...which is exactly what @Penguin68 was saying. 

[march46]

On 20/08/2025 at 22:39, Rockets said:

the council has £500,000 less to waste on vanity projects like Dulwich Square now!

Pleased to hear you now agree regarding the council recovering the full costs. It sounded like you were (gleefully?) thinking they’d be out of pocket earlier.

I’m not sure why anyone would celebrate the council having less funds to spend on active travel / public realm improvement projects.

Thankfully it’s not true either way. 

[Rockets]

The wasting money is though isnt it.....if they are unable to recover the full costs of the refunds then clearly they have £500,000 less to waste on projects like Dulwich Square, which have been funded by their over zealous, and seemingly now erroneous, fining of car drivers.

Clearly someone at the council wasn't keeping tabs on what their agents were up to....

[march46]

If…

1 hour ago, Rockets said:

..if they are unable to recover the full costs of the refunds then clearly they have £500,000 less to waste on projects like Dulwich Square

Pure speculation. The quote from Cllr McAsh very clearly states “The council will recover the full cost of the refunds from the contractors”

[Rockets]

If you believe everything a politician tells you in the media then good luck to you....you're either very, very trusting or a big fan of theirs...

There is more than enough in the statement McAsh put out to suggest it might not be plain sailing...the contractors are unlikely to sit back and take a £500,000 hit because McAsh says so in a statement.

But, to be honest, you were picking an argument with @Penguin68 and anyone who properly read the statement could tell @Penguin68 was right and you were wrong.