Digital ID

[malumbu]

Whilst instinctively I'm against this I already have a government ID, pay my taxes through this, renew my passport and driving licence.

Polling suggests a slight majority will support this 

It would be good to get views on the concept rather than the politics.

Let's see how long that lasts!

We can talk the politics at the Forum drinks.

[Jenijenjen]

I have no problem with it. Don't understand why civil liberties groups are against it and why there has been so much historic resistance to the introduction of ID cards. We already have passports, surely not so very different?

[Insuflo]

If you and I already have various government id and use them effectively, why do we need another? 
I need to travel abroad, then I use my passport. I need to drive, I need my licence. I need to check my tax, NI or whatever online, I need a government id. This is all fair enough.

However, I should not have to and I will not produce my papers on demand for simply existing in my country. 

Illegal employers currently exploiting migrants without physical id will continue to do so, knowing the worst consequences they will face is that their limited company might be fined.  

Can you imagine what misuses a Farage government might put a compulsory id system to?

Opposition to what may well become this government’s Poll Tax will be considerable. The petition to parliament is already up to 2.5 million:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/730194

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Insuflo

[Sue]

29 minutes ago, Insuflo said:

If you and I already have various government id and use them effectively, why do we need another? 
I need to travel abroad, then I use my passport. I need to drive, I need my licence. I need to check my tax, NI or whatever online, I need a government id. This is all fair enough.

However, I should not have to and I will not produce my papers on demand for simply existing in my country. 

Illegal employers currently exploiting migrants without physical id will continue to do so, knowing the worst consequences they will face is that their limited company might be fined.  

Can you imagine what misuses a Farage government might put a compulsory id system to?

Opposition to what may well become this government’s Poll Tax will be considerable. The petition to parliament is already up to 2.5 million:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/730194

 

Not everyone has a passport. Not everyone has a driving licence.

If you have nothing to hide, I can't see the problem.

And hypothetical assumptions about what a future government might do could apply to many things. That is not a good reason not to do them (imo).

If Farage forms a government we will have plenty to worry about apart from digital ID.

[David Peckham]

It's difficult to keep politics completely out of it, if only to look who its most vehement opponents are; Farage, Corbyn, the Tories, the Lib-Dems, the Unionist parties of Northern Ireland, and civil liberties organisations like Liberty. That's a hell of a broad church - it seems to vex different people for different reasons.

I don't really have a problem with ID cards ideologically, but large government organisations don't have a great track record in implementing large scale IT systems,. The Post Office and the NHS stand out - hugely expensive systems which either didn't perform or were written off.

Data security is a concern - there seems to be arguments both for & against it making identity fraud both easier and more difficult, but the majority of adults in the UK have given away so much personal data on Facebook etc, that they're pretty wide open to being cloned anyway.

Other than Switzerland and Denmark, we're the only country in Europe that doesn't have them. so there should be be enough learnings from other systems to have a reasonable debate about their merits, or otherwise.

My major concern is that after politicians debate it ad nauseum, civil servants carry out a tedious tendering process and the Information Architects start arguing amongst themselves, the world will have moved on so much that whatever was originally signed off will be very expensive, anachronistic white elephant.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by David Peckham

[Insuflo]

15 minutes ago, Sue said:

If you have nothing to hide, I can't see the problem 

Incredible. So bring back the Sus Laws, then?  

[David Peckham]

1 hour ago, Insuflo said:

 

However, I should not have to and I will not produce my papers on demand for simply existing in my country. 
  
Can you imagine what misuses a Farage government might put a compulsory id system to?

 

It wouldn't be mandatory to carry it and Farage is one of the biggest critics of digital ID cards.

Genuinely, and maybe I'm being naive, but what nefarious stuff do you think it could be used for?

[malumbu]

49 minutes ago, David Peckham said:

It's difficult to keep politics completely out of it, if only to look who its most vehement opponents are; Farage, Corbyn, the Tories, the Lib-Dems, the Unionist parties of Northern Ireland, and civil liberties organisations like Liberty. That's a hell of a broad church - it seems to vex different people for different reasons.

I don't really have a problem with ID cards ideologically, but large government organisations don't have a great track record in implementing large scale IT systems,. The Post Office and the NHS stand out - hugely expensive systems which either didn't perform or were written off.

Steering clear of politics... whoops... odd that Tories and Farige are against this.

Government has an excellent record of providing digital services, self assessment for example has improved ten fold since I first did it on line 20 years ago.

Where they outsource it willy nilly that can be a disaster.  The outsourcing of Covid testing for when you returned from abroad was appalling, clunky systems provided by AAAAAAA testing, based in outer space (US by the whole nature of the front end).

[Earl Aelfheah]

I think that when it comes to privacy and surveillance, the ship has already sailed. Most of us carry a mobile phone everywhere, pay for things digitally, buy things and access services online, are tracked by CCTV and APNR etc.

[Insuflo]

6 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

Most of us carry a mobile phone everywhere, pay for things digitally, buy things and access services online, are tracked by CCTV and APNR etc.

Yes, I do all of those things as a matter of choice and for my personal convenience. Being compelled to have identity papers, digital or otherwise is another matter entirely.

There is no need for a compulsory id system, it is totally unnecessary. It plays into the notion that immigration is the greatest threat facing this country and the root of all problems- it is not.

[alice]

As it won’t stop any person working illegally/ without paying tax  - what’s the point? 

[Sephiroth]

One of those times when I as a non-Brit look at all of you on all political sides with your full puffed-out “I’m a free person in a free country sir! I will never, never I say… “ etc etc 

basically the full Boris Johnson schtick

Now it must be said that this gov and its stated reasons for the card (the Brit card.  FFS) is the usual unworkable nonsense 

that being said, people from other countries long ago discovered the benefit of joined up govt and are doing fine.  So let’s all stop clutching pearls, point out flaws in contradictory thinking and just get on with it. Sure, this country being this country will fudge and kludge and basically produce a c- version. But still 

a farage govt will not be able to do any more damage with an id card than without.  I think that line of thinking is emotive nonsense tbh 

comparisons with poll tax are weird and the petition being up to 2.5 million should be a source of embarrassment tbh

[CPR Dave]

I don't think it's right for the government to force people to buy a smart phone so that they can go to work. 

I also don't trust the government to put an app on people's phones without being tempted to steal private information by listening through the microphone, looking through your photos, looking through your location data etc. all of which permissions will no doubt be needed to to be given to the app so that it (and therefore you) can work. 

 

On the politics, I think the hectoring, condescending delivery of the message was appalling. " This government will make digital ID mandatory for the right to work... Let me spell that out. You will not be able to work in the United Kingdom if you do not have digital ID. It's a simple as that."

He seems to have forgotten that he is Prime Minister and not the Reich Chancellor or the Generalisimus. He serves us. He doesn't lecture us like a dictator forcing compliance with intrusive governance for which he has no democratic mandate whatsoever.

The right to work in this country is a birth right. No Prime Minister has the power to stop people working for refusing to own a smart phone or to download a Dictator's app.