Bellenden’s Road School Gate proposal

[Earl Aelfheah]

I don't know about that. I'm just commenting on the idea that it's not possible to read the signs / notice a school street.

That said, if you're going from ED to Highshore Road, can't you go via McDermott > Choumert Grove > Chadwick? The original post suggested that the school street would only be in operation for just over an hour in the morning?

Edited November 14 by Earl Aelfheah

[Pugwash]

I have a feeling that one of these roads is a one way/no entry - have not tried this route for sometime.

[malumbu]

On 13/11/2025 at 15:48, CPR Dave said:

There's a school street opposite the end of my road and the council must be making a bucketload of cash from it every day, with the number of drivers I see go through there by accident.

I assume this is a joke/tongue in cheek.

Otherwise was a strange statement.  Accident?  What are they driving with their eyes shut? Checking their WhatsApps? Scrolling through Tinder??  Maybe they were distracted by aliens.  

No such thing as an accident.

[Penguin68]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

No such thing as an accident

That's really not true, I do wish you'd stop insisting that. The desire to believe that every incident can be blamed on someone is simply childish. As is the desire to seek to blame people. Except cyclists of course, I believe is your theme. 

[march46]

40 minutes ago, Penguin68 said:

That's really not true, I do wish you'd stop insisting that. The desire to believe that every incident can be blamed on someone is simply childish. As is the desire to seek to blame people. Except cyclists of course, I believe is your theme. 

Crash not accident - why language matters  I think this is linked to what Malumbu is referring to.
 

When a driver is in charge of a heavy vehicle that could kill or seriously injure someone, using the word accident to describe them not seeing an important road sign can minimise how serious this is. What else could they not be seeing?

Edited November 14 by march46
Clarity

[Penguin68]

But what was said was that there was no such thing as an accident, not that certain incidents could be seen to have a contributory cause which should have been forseen. If I am suddenly stung by a wasp whilst driving I may have an involuntary movement which may cause me, or someone else, significant harm. But would you then wish to attribute blame to someone, indeed presumably me. 50 years ago I was driving when I had a sudden mechanical failure of a component which was newly fitted. Which caused my car, and nearly me, to be written off. It was a mechanical failure which could not have been forseen by me or the person who fitted it. But apparently there's no such thing as as an accident in some people's books. 

[malumbu]

The term accident is a cover all for things being damaged following some sort of incident, 

From OED:  

an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.

"he had an accident at the factory"

and an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause

It's overused and more often than not there is a better term eg 'collision' rather than 'accident'.  Worse still is describing something as 'accidental' which is often used as an excuse.

Unintentional is far more appropriate.  I didn't know.  But that is no excuse.  If you are not observing your surroundings including street signs then it is clearly your fault.  And you should not be making excuses for you and others.

If you find it difficult to look out for signage then perhaps you should not be driving.

You can argue that the size of fines is disproportionate, that 'decent and careful' drivers are victimised when the real  perpetrators get away with it, that there should be more discretion (as I have in the past).  But please do not say enforcement is only there to make money.  

 

[CPR Dave]

Fine, I'll rephrase it FFS.

There's a school street opposite the end of my road and the council must be making a bucketload of cash from it every day, with the number of drivers I see go through there in a series of unrelated unfortunate incidents that happen unexpectedly and unintentionally, resulting in damage to each driver's finances.

[malumbu]

Is that aggressive or passive aggressive?

If you can't afford to pay fines for breaking rules then perhaps you shouldn't drive.  Most of us take it on the chin and try to learn from the experience.

[Sue]

4 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

Fine, I'll rephrase it FFS.

There's a school street opposite the end of my road and the council must be making a bucketload of cash from it every day, with the number of drivers I see go through there in a series of unrelated unfortunate incidents that happen unexpectedly and unintentionally, resulting in damage to each driver's finances.

There must be a great many extremely poor drivers around if you see so many of them ignoring or failing to see signs indicating a school street.

What sort of daily numbers are you talking about, and how much is a "bucket load" of cash?

[CPR Dave]

Well, I walk past every morning on my way to work via Peckham Rye station. I reckon I see at least two or three vehicles drive down the school street from the Crystal Palace Road end each day. 

The signs aren't actually conspicuous and the road itself is very busy at the time with commuters cycling, people dropping off at the school there and other vehicles causing general carnage trying to turn around to avoid the cameras.

It's chaos almost every day and so must be quite easy to miss the signs that are positioned high up and very close to the point of no return. 

[march46]

It’s worth noting that some drivers (possibly all that you see) may have exemptions from the school street restriction:

The following are eligible for a School Streets parking permit exemption which allows them to park at the restricted times:

• vehicles already registered to residents and businesses in a School Streets zone
• emergency vehicles
• registered school minibuses
• SEND vehicles
• registered Southwark AD permit holders or disabled badge holders living inside the restriction, or those dropping off children to the school
• parents or carers of children with specific access needs, such as mobility issues, who have applied and been given an exemption

[malumbu]

2 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

Well, I walk past every morning on my way to work via Peckham Rye station. I reckon I see at least two or three vehicles drive down the school street from the Crystal Palace Road end each day. 

The signs aren't actually conspicuous and the road itself is very busy at the time with commuters cycling, people dropping off at the school there and other vehicles causing general carnage trying to turn around to avoid the cameras.

It's chaos almost every day and so must be quite easy to miss the signs that are positioned high up and very close to the point of no return. 

So this is two or three drivers who are new to the area driving down every morning in the few minutes you are there?  Are there that many people doing a one-off drive in the area?  Where are they going??  If it is delivery drivers then they should know better.

From what March says, it sounds like they are permitted.

And if not, why are you fighting their battle for them??

[Pugwash]

Daughter was using her sat nav to get to unfamiliar area and was not aware she was driving down a school street until she got a £90 fine in the post. She went back to the area and the signs were very poorly placed and partially covered by trees.

[Sue]

50 minutes ago, Pugwash said:

Daughter was using her sat nav to get to unfamiliar area and was not aware she was driving down a school street until she got a £90 fine in the post. She went back to the area and the signs were very poorly placed and partially covered by trees.

Did she take photos and complain about the fine?